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Thread: "Radical Muslim"

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    "There are different types of Muslims to consider according to former Muslim Gabriel."

    The information is incorrect.
    How so?

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    There are different types of Muslims to consider according to former Muslim Gabriel.

    Ordinary Muslims

    Ordinary Muslims practice some of the teachings of Islam, but they donít want to do anything difficult, like participate in jihad. They are more interested in having nice lives, providing for their children and running their businesses. They are Muslims because of their culture and tradition rather than because of strong religious beliefs.

    Most of the Muslims in the United States are ordinary Muslims. Some even send their children to Christian schools. Even in the Middle East there are more ordinary Muslims than committed Muslims. It would take time and motivation to turn ordinary Muslims into committed Muslims.

    From the point of view of a committed Muslim, this group should be referred to as secular Muslims because they are not submitting wholly to Islam.

    Committed Muslims

    Committed Muslims are making great efforts to live according to Islam. They are praying five times a day (which can take 2 Ĺ hours per day), giving alms and fasting all food and water during daylight hours of the month of Ramadan. A committed Muslim may not be in a radical group like Hamas, but he could choose to cross that line at any time that he feels his religion or people are threatened.

    Orthodox Muslims

    A subset of committed Muslims is the orthodox Muslims. Not only do orthodox Muslims want to follow the requirements of Islam, but they also want to do it in the same way as Muhammad did in the seventh century. They spend much time reading the Quran and Islamic books. Following the Quran and hadith, they may put severe restrictions on women. In Islamic countries, orthodox Muslims may choose to grow out their beards, but in the West they may not look different from other Muslims.

    Sufites

    This is the first sect in Islam that tried to transfer the meaning of jihad from spreading Islam with the sword to a spiritual struggle to fight evil within oneself. Sufism started six centuries after Muhammadís death. Only 2 to 3 percent of Muslims worldwide are Sufites. Orthodox Muslims and fanatic Muslims reject them and do not consider them to be true Muslims.

    Fanatic Muslims

    These are committed Muslims who put their words into action. They are the types of people who join militant groups such as Hamas or work with al-Qaeda. They are ready to practice jihad (to kill or be killed in the name of Islam).
    How to Tell the Difference

    After the September 11 attacks, you could identify the different types of Muslims according to their reactions. The ordinary Muslims were pretty quiet. In the United States, they were even hanging American flags on their houses and showing support for the United States.

    The committed Muslims were demonstrating in the streets in support of al-Qaeda. Their imams were praising the bravery of Osama bin Laden and his network.

    The fanatic Muslims were taking their joy a step beyond talk. They were planning new attacks, such as the kidnapping and murder of journalist Daniel Pearl in February 2002. A year and a half after September 11, they were able to orchestrate major new bombings against Western targets overseas (including bombings in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in May 2003).

    What Do These Categories Mean?

    These categories mean that not all Muslims have the same level of knowledge and commitment. Some ordinary Muslims do not even know about many things that are in the Quran and Islamic history about Muhammad.

    Committed and fanatic Muslims often have a very clear understanding of the teachings of Islam. They use the Quran and the example of Muhammad and the early Muslims as a blueprint for their attitudes and actions today.

    Not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims.
    Dr Gabriel's credentials:

    Bachelor's, master's, and doctorate degrees in Islamic History and Culture from Al-Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt, Graduating second in his class of six thousand students for his bachelor's degree. This ranking was based on cumulative scores or oral and written exams given at the end of each school year, One of the youngest lecturers ever hired at Al-Azhar University. He started lecturing after he finished his master's degree and was working to finish his doctorate, Traveling lecturer. The university sent him to countries around the Middle East as a lecturer in Islamic history, Served as the imam at a mosque in the Cairo suburbs, Later Gabriel became a Christian and pursued a Christian education which include: Discipleship Training School with Youth With A Mission in Cape Town, South Africa, Master's degree in World Religion from Florida Christian University in Orlando, Florida (2001), Doctorate degree in Christian Education from Florida Christian University in Orland, Florida (2002), Induction as a fellow in the Oxford Society of Scholars, September 2003.
    What he calls "ordinary Muslims" are better described as secular Muslims and appear to be quite rare except in place like the U.S. making them anything but ordinary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    What he calls "ordinary Muslims" are better described as secular Muslims and appear to be quite rare except in place like the U.S. making them anything but ordinary.
    Yes, Gabriel calls them secular Muslims.

    The US has all types of Muslims.

    When discussing Islam with Muslims I think it is more important to know what Islam teaches, rather than what a certain Muslim thinks.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    How so?
    almost everything is incorrect---so I don't even know where to begin correcting!

    your list of groups in the other thread was better......
    ...there is diversity within Islam but there are better/more nuanced ways of exploring that than the list by Dr Gabriel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    almost everything is incorrect---so I don't even know where to begin correcting!

    your list of groups in the other thread was better......
    ...there is diversity within Islam but there are better/more nuanced ways of exploring that than the list by Dr Gabriel.
    I think you can agree that Muslims have varying commitment to their faith and that is the point here. No need for a sermon.

  6. Amen Pentecost, Cow Poke amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    I think you can agree that Muslims have varying commitment to their faith and that is the point here.
    The degree of commitment is a matter of the heart---and there is no way for others to know the degree of commitment a person has---only God knows. Therefore, lists that categorize a Muslim's commitment to their faith is only subjective speculation---and shoddy as well.

    Consider this,---gather a group of married men to evaluate their commitment to their spouse, and make 3 categories---ordinary, committed, and orthodox---then go on to speculate that...
    Ordinary men practice romance but not anything difficult. They just want to live ordinary lives.
    Committed men, make a great effort, they call their wives 5 times a day, give roses, and do all the things a romance guide requires them to do. They are not violent---but can cross the line anytime their loved ones are threatened.
    Orthodox men---bearded men who are committed to their wives but want romance the way the ancients did it.

    exactly what use is such a list? its all abstract speculation that is unrelated to reality---and if some married men happen to fit one of these categories---its more of a hit or miss....
    Human beings grow and change over time, sometimes we progress and sometimes we regress....we are complex with many motivations and aspirations---that is the reality.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    The degree of commitment is a matter of the heart---and there is no way for others to know the degree of commitment a person has---only God knows. Therefore, lists that categorize a Muslim's commitment to their faith is only subjective speculation---and shoddy as well.

    Consider this,---gather a group of married men to evaluate their commitment to their spouse, and make 3 categories---ordinary, committed, and orthodox---then go on to speculate that...
    Ordinary men practice romance but not anything difficult. They just want to live ordinary lives.
    Committed men, make a great effort, they call their wives 5 times a day, give roses, and do all the things a romance guide requires them to do. They are not violent---but can cross the line anytime their loved ones are threatened.
    Orthodox men---bearded men who are committed to their wives but want romance the way the ancients did it.

    exactly what use is such a list? its all abstract speculation that is unrelated to reality---and if some married men happen to fit one of these categories---its more of a hit or miss....
    Human beings grow and change over time, sometimes we progress and sometimes we regress....we are complex with many motivations and aspirations---that is the reality.
    Gabriel's list is a general list. Of course God only knows. Notice Gabriel did not mention names.

  9. #18
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    The degree of commitment is a matter of the heart---and there is no way for others to know the degree of commitment a person has---only God knows.
    Interesting that you should choose 'married men' as an example. But let's go with that, for grins. If a number of those men were to treat their wives like chattel property instead of partners in marriage, God would not be the only one seeing it. And, if some of those men were to beat their wives, others could know that, as well. Not "only God".

    Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

    Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." (Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir)).

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  10. Amen Cerebrum123, Christian3 amen'd this post.
  11. #19
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Yes, Gabriel calls them secular Muslims.

    The US has all types of Muslims.

    When discussing Islam with Muslims I think it is more important to know what Islam teaches, rather than what a certain Muslim thinks.
    Agreed. And Islam teaches conversion by the sword.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  12. Amen Cerebrum123, Christian3 amen'd this post.
  13. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Agreed. And Islam teaches conversion by the sword.
    Yes, it does.

    We can see that when Jew Maimonides was in Spain. He was given the choice of leaving, converting to Islam or dying.

    We can also see this here: http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Houthis-to...men-422604

    And, if it had not been for Muslim aggression, there never would have been the Crusades.

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