Where Is The Crime?

[seer]

I have been asking for a while, even if the Trump people did collaborate with Russia, why would that be a crime? It seems that Alan Dershowitz agrees:

Although many on the left have expressed their approval of Robert Mueller being appointed as special counsel to investigate possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller could actually vindicate President Donald Trump, rather than bring about his downfall.

On "Tucker Carlson Tonight," Dershowitz, a legal scholar and Harvard University Law School professor, said he doesn't see a crime that necessitated the appointment of a special counsel.

He explained that it would not be criminal, even if it happened, for the Trump campaign to have collaborated with the Russians in an effort to get their candidate elected.

"That's political wrongdoing, but it's just not a crime," Dershowitz said. "Nobody can point me to a statute that would be violated. And a prosecutor is only allowed to look for evidence of a federal crime."

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/05/1...heres-no-crime

[Meh Gerbil]

So we've no evidence for a non-crime?
Compelling stuff. That.

Seer, we've no evidence that you went on a bike ride today, but by golly, we're going to keep looking for it until we find it.

[seer]

So we've no evidence for a non-crime?
Compelling stuff. That.

Seer, we've no evidence that you went on a bike ride today, but by golly, we're going to keep looking for it until we find it.

And according to Dershowitz, even if I went on a bike ride, it isn't a crime.

[firstfloor]

I have been asking for a while, even if the Trump people did collaborate with Russia, why would that be a crime? It seems that Alan Dershowitz agrees:

Trump would be done for if he was caught telling porkies. Then you know for sure that he cannot be trusted, and out he goes.

[rogue06]

Trump would be done for if he was caught telling porkies. Then you know for sure that he cannot be trusted, and out he goes.

Never seemed to be the case with other politicians

[RumTumTugger]

Never seemed to be the case with other politicians

you mean for Democrat politicians.

[Charles]

I have watched a couple of videos in order to hear his points.

It is interesting to note that he says that if they only coordinated, then there is no crime but very serious political wrongdoing. He then seems to accept that if they cooperated on specifics, eg. the hacking of Hillary, then that would be a crime. And then it is as if we are all to take it for granted that they did not cooperate. He returns to the "where is the crime?" statement when he has just mentioned where they could be and where investigators are most likely looking to see if they can find anything. So though I like his approach and his understanding of being fair I just don't how he can reach that specific conclusion at this point in time.

Found an interesting video in which he discusses the issue with others, Carl Bernstein being one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH0Ux7xL8Jo

[seer]

I have watched a couple of videos in order to hear his points.

It is interesting to note that he says that if they only coordinated, then there is no crime but very serious political wrongdoing. He then seems to accept that if they cooperated on specifics, eg. the hacking of Hillary, then that would be a crime. And then it is as if we are all to take it for granted that they did not cooperate. He returns to the "where is the crime?" statement when he has just mentioned where they could be and where investigators are most likely looking to see if they can find anything. So though I like his approach and his understanding of being fair I just don't how he can reach that specific conclusion at this point in time.

Correct, so in reality, apart from the hacking, which would be against the law, simple collaboration to beat Hillary would not be a crime. Which BTY, is exactly what Obama did in the Israeli election.

[Charles]

Correct, so in reality, apart from the hacking, which would be against the law, simple collaboration to beat Hillary would not be a crime. Which BTY, is exactly what Obama did in the Israeli election.

The hacking was an example. One could think of other actions taken that could be illegal. Simple collaboration to beat Hillary would not be a crime. Neither would a more complicated collaboration. Now it is important to remember that law allows for quite many immoral and bad things to happen. But I suppose that belongs in another thread.

[seer]

The hacking was an example. One could think of other actions taken that could be illegal. Simple collaboration to beat Hillary would not be a crime. Neither would a more complicated collaboration. Now it is important to remember that law allows for quite many immoral and bad things to happen. But I suppose that belongs in another thread.

That is interesting, do you think that collaboration with the Russians would be immoral? Would you apply the same standard with what Obama did in Israel and the Ukraine? As a matter of fact the whole Ukraine thing may be one of the reasons why the Russian came back at Hillary so hard.

[Charles]

That is interesting, do you think that collaboration with the Russians would be immoral? Would you apply the same standard with what Obama did in Israel and the Ukraine? As a matter of fact the whole Ukraine thing may be one of the reasons why the Russian came back at Hillary so hard.

It is interesting that you seem to not care whether a corrupt power has a significant influence when it comes to deciding who becomes the American president. There are different levels at which cooperation could have taken place and thus also different levels of possible immorality. A rather low level would be if they had just taken advice on how to campaign. At a higher level it would be if they cooperated on fake news, if they cooperated on when Hillary should be hacked and so on. And of course, if that has happened, be sure that the Russians will be paid back. There are other even higher levels but of course at the moment, we know too little.

If you want to discuss Hillary, Obama and whatever else then fine by me, but I don't see that it makes any difference to Trumps possible actions, so perhaps you should start a new thread. I do not base my opinion on this on whatever Hillary, Obama or anyone else may or may not have gotten away with, nor am I supporter of any of them. So, perhaps we might as well stay on topic?

[seer]

It is interesting that you seem to not care whether a corrupt power has a significant influence when it comes to deciding who becomes the American president. There are different levels at which cooperation could have taken place and thus also different levels of possible immorality. A rather low level would be if they had just taken advice on how to campaign. At a higher level it would be if they cooperated on fake news, if they cooperated on when Hillary should be hacked and so on. And of course, if that has happened, be sure that the Russians will be paid back. There are other even higher levels but of course at the moment, we know too little.

If you want to discuss Hillary, Obama and whatever else then fine by me, but I don't see that it makes any difference to Trumps possible actions, so perhaps you should start a new thread. I do not base my opinion on this on whatever Hillary, Obama or anyone else may or may not have gotten away with, nor am I supporter of any of them. So, perhaps we might as well stay on topic?

Well this is my thread, so I'm just trying to see if you have a double standard,

[Charles]

Well this is my thread, so I'm just trying to see if you have a double standard,

Instead of discussing and providing arguments...

I would rather hear your thoughts on what I wrote than having to talk about off topic stuff.

[seer]

Instead of discussing and providing arguments...

I would rather hear your thoughts on what I wrote than having to talk about off topic stuff.

There is really nothing to talk about yet - there are no criminal charges. If they did collude in a non-criminal way, I would find it unseemly, but it wouldn't bother me too much.

[Mountain Man]

I have been asking for a while, even if the Trump people did collaborate with Russia, why would that be a crime? It seems that Alan Dershowitz agrees:

Alan Dershowitz thinks Mueller could actually vindicate President Donald Trump, rather than bring about his downfall.

Not a chance. Democrats have already been calling for the scope of the investigation to be broadened because they are determined to find Trump guilty of anything, even it's unrelated to the original accusations. Trump was 100% right to call it a witch-hunt.