Levitical and Melchizedek priesthoods

[RBerman]

It seems Jaymz said that Christ is Mechizedek. I question that.

Hebrews 6:20 (King James Version)

20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Sounds to me that the order was there and then Jesus was added to the order.

Hebrews 7

1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Christ says He has a Father and He has a mother. Christ gave up His life and then was resurrected. How does that fit? And if it is Christ then why does it say "like" the Son of God? Let us get this priestly question resolved.

You are correct; Jesus is not Melchizedek, but Melchizedek is like Jesus in some respects, as the author of Hebrews says.

[franktalk]

You are correct; Jesus is not Melchizedek, but Melchizedek is like Jesus in some respects, as the author of Hebrews says.

OK, so from scripture we have at least two priest from that order. Since scripture says that the Aaronic priesthood is limited and Christ through His sacrifice made for a better priest offering then why can't we have priest in the order of Melchizedek?

[RBerman]

OK, so from scripture we have at least two priest from that order. Since scripture says that the Aaronic priesthood is limited and Christ through His sacrifice made for a better priest offering then why can't we have priest in the order of Melchizedek?

But you guys don't really believe that the Aaronic priesthood is limited, right? I mean, according to Hebrews, the Melchizedekan priesthood is a big deal because it's a way that a non-Levite can be a priest. But Mormon boys progress from being an Aaronic priest to being a Melchizedekan priest, which goes against the whole distinction that Hebrews makes between the two kinds of priests.

[franktalk]

But you guys don't really believe that the Aaronic priesthood is limited, right? I mean, according to Hebrews, the Melchizedekan priesthood is a big deal because it's a way that a non-Levite can be a priest. But Mormon boys progress from being an Aaronic priest to being a Melchizedekan priest, which goes against the whole distinction that Hebrews makes between the two kinds of priests.

If you want to learn about the LDS priesthood then go to LDS.org The LDS self run their churches, the members perform the tasks as authorized by a line back to the Church leaders. But the members vote on each selection. So in essence the leaders can be traced back to member votes. There is more than I have written but that is the core of it.

The responsibilities of the priest are laid out by JS. But they can be traced back to the Bible. Nothing really new here.

[JAYMZ]

OK, so from scripture we have at least two priest from that order. Since scripture says that the Aaronic priesthood is limited and Christ through His sacrifice made for a better priest offering then why can't we have priest in the order of Melchizedek?

Do you think someone can come along and ADD to the function of which Christ serves ?

" But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. "

Scripture Verse:

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”

Heres the main reason why the LDS " Melchizedek " priesthood is bogus...

Scripture Verse:

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. 26 Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

The LDS arguments are just going to " dash " against the " rock " of the Word of God.

[JAYMZ]

That's one reason why we need prophets today. So God can reveal truth once again to the earth, instead of suffering us to remain in the dark ages of tradition and ignorance forever.

See, people like Sun Myung Moon make similar claims. They take bible terms and pour their own meanings into them just like the LDS.

Do see why your average Christian has problems believing all these new " prophets " and their so-called restorations ?

[JAYMZ]

Christ says He has a Father and He has a mother. Christ gave up His life and then was resurrected. How does that fit?

Yeah Christ was from the tribe of Judah and not Levi. Not qualified to be a Levitical priest, so thats why the author goes to the Melchizedek comparison and proceeds to make his point.

All the LDS are just completely missing the point of Hebrews in the first place. The teaching is just going to be lost on you if you continue to make it conform to what Joseph Smith taught.


As it was said earlier, Smith was just pulling some words from the bible, just to pour his own meaning into it.

[JAYMZ]

Whoever Christ delegates to. That's who.

Says who ?

Joseph Smith ? Jim Jones ?

[jo7241974]

Do you think someone can come along and ADD to the function of which Christ serves ?

" But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. "

Scripture Verse:

11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”

Heres the main reason why the LDS " Melchizedek " priesthood is bogus...

Scripture Verse:

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. 26 Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

The LDS arguments are just going to " dash " against the " rock " of the Word of God.

Yes, "Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." Did you know that while we are in the flesh, IOW, while we are still mortal, those who hold the Melchizedek Priesthood can also have that priesthood entirely removed from them should they stray or fall into apostasy? Did you know that inasmuch as the Melchizedek Priesthood is NOT permanent for a mortal, ALL of the Power and Authority which come with the different callings, which can only be given to someone who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood, are temporary? I.E., they are not permanent as Jesus' are (Jesus is THE High Priest of the Melchizedek Priesthood). In fact, as callings change, so do the Power and Authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood holder change. The "mantle" of the particular calling itself dictates what Power and Authority go with it. Thus, on the earth, the Melchizedek Priesthood is the Power and Authority of God to administer to the spiritual affairs of the Church in accordance with direction received from God.

Also, did you know that the Law was NOT removed by Jesus; that it is still on the earth today? Accordingly, in order for the Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood to still be able to handle the temporal administrations of the Church HAD to be made available to the Gentiles. Thus, obviously outside of the Jewish faith, the Aaronic Priesthood could no longer be held only by the descendants of Levi (although, male members of the Church who ARE from the lineage of Levi do automatically hold the Aaronic Priesthood). Since the Gentiles are grafted into the tree of Faith, it was necessary that the rules concerning who could hold the Aaronic Priesthood needed to be adjusted.

Regards,

jo

[OtherCheek]

See, people like Sun Myung Moon make similar claims. They take bible terms and pour their own meanings into them just like the LDS.

Do see why your average Christian has problems believing all these new " prophets " and their so-called restorations ?

Yes. They don't ask. They assume they know for themselves, and fail to ask God for further light and knowledge.

[OtherCheek]

Says who ?

Joseph Smith ? Jim Jones ?

Seeing as all power rests with Him, ultimately, the Lord says who.


So, the LDS doctrine teaches that God has his Priesthood, and he delegates it to man as authority, to perform authorized works of salvation on the earth--under the direction of His Spirit--always. This included both the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods--belong to God.
Is it safe to say that Protestant sects teach that "priesthood" (or at least the Aaronic Priesthood) is an invention of man? And does not come through God?

[RBerman]

The responsibilities of the priest are laid out by JS. But they can be traced back to the Bible. Nothing really new here.

It seems to me that the only things about teenage "Aaronic Priests" that can be traced back to the Bible is (1) that they are called "priests" and (2) that they have some sort of responsibility in the church. Their duties do not resemble those of Biblical priests, nor are they of the lineage of Aaron, which as Hebrews points out is the defining characteristic of an Aaronic priest. It seems like just another example of Joseph Smith redefining Biblical terminology to suit his own purposes. The idea that an Aaronic priest can become a Melchizedekean priest further jumbles the Biblical picture. The Bible doesn't treat "Aaronic priest" and "Melchizedekean priest" as separate jobs, but a single job, priest, for which one can be qualified by one of two routes.

[moreta]

Seeing as all power rests with Him, ultimately, the Lord says who.


So, the LDS doctrine teaches that God has his Priesthood, and he delegates it to man as authority, to perform authorized works of salvation on the earth--under the direction of His Spirit--always. This included both the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods--belong to God.
Is it safe to say that Protestant sects teach that "priesthood" (or at least the Aaronic Priesthood) is an invention of man? And does not come through God?

I'm not sure what you mean by the Aaronic priesthood with regard to Protesants. No on I know outside the LDS has or claims to have this priesthood. Biblically, the preisthood was not a manmade invention, but instituted by God.

Scripture
1 “Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, so they may serve me as priests.
Exodus 28:1 NIV

So Aaron and his descendants were to serve as priests in the tabernacle and latter the temple. The other Levites were put incharge of the physical property of the tabernacle.

Scripture
47 The ancestral tribe of the Levites, however, was not counted along with the others. 48 The LORD had said to Moses: 49 “You must not count the tribe of Levi or include them in the census of the other Israelites. 50 Instead, appoint the Levites to be in charge of the tabernacle of the covenant law—over all its furnishings and everything belonging to it. They are to carry the tabernacle and all its furnishings; they are to take care of it and encamp around it. 51 Whenever the tabernacle is to move, the Levites are to take it down, and whenever the tabernacle is to be set up, the Levites shall do it. Anyone else who approaches it is to be put to death. 52 The Israelites are to set up their tents by divisions, each of them in their own camp under their standard. 53 The Levites, however, are to set up their tents around the tabernacle of the covenant law so that my wrath will not fall on the Israelite community. The Levites are to be responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the covenant law.”
Numbers 1:47-53 NIV

Also directed by God. I don't see that any of this shows God 'delegating' His 'priesthood power' to one of lower authority. I see this as God saying you are my people, and this is how you will serve me. Aaron and his sons were the only ones in biblical times, right up until the crucifiction, who could approach God, and then only at certain times of the year and under certain circumstances. The priesthood of the believer, which is what I think you're refering to ('that "priesthood" (or at least the Aaronic Priesthood) is an invention of man?') simply means that any believer can go to God, on his or her own behalf, without any special preparation or ceremony. The LDS concept of the Aaronic priesthood, however, is manmade. At least in this Protestant's view.

[franktalk]

It seems to me that the only things about teenage "Aaronic Priests" that can be traced back to the Bible is (1) that they are called "priests" and (2) that they have some sort of responsibility in the church. Their duties do not resemble those of Biblical priests, nor are they of the lineage of Aaron, which as Hebrews points out is the defining characteristic of an Aaronic priest. It seems like just another example of Joseph Smith redefining Biblical terminology to suit his own purposes. The idea that an Aaronic priest can become a Melchizedekean priest further jumbles the Biblical picture. The Bible doesn't treat "Aaronic priest" and "Melchizedekean priest" as separate jobs, but a single job, priest, for which one can be qualified by one of two routes.

So your point is you don't like the organization of the priesthood in the LDS church. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, shocked indeed.

So tell me of the early church fathers how many are Jewish? And what about Luke?

[jo7241974]

Deacons, Teachers and Priests have always been positions held within the Aaronic Priesthood. It seems many denominations still have these positions held today. So, how is it that some orthodox denominations have them; and some don't? Where is the authority coming from? Can they show the line of authority which reaches down through time to them today? Also, please explain how these individuals can hold these offices within the Aaronic Priesthood if they are not from the lineage of Levi.

Thanks,

jo