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  • Public Health Care

    The estimated cost for single payer in California is 400 billion per year.

    Cost: 400 Billion Per Year
    Residents: 40 Million

    That comes out to ten thousand dollars per person.
    That is more than 2X what my family/employer pays for healthcare in Michigan.

    SOURCE: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-...151960182.html
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  • #2
    Obviously you just want to watch poor people die without proper health care, you sick sociopath.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
      The estimated cost for single payer in California is 400 billion per year.

      Cost: 400 Billion Per Year
      Residents: 40 Million

      That comes out to ten thousand dollars per person.
      That is more than 2X what my family/employer pays for healthcare in Michigan.

      SOURCE: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-...151960182.html
      Are you comparing premiums (from your employer) with the entire healthcare costs including the actual procedures and care under a single payer system?

      If you took the cost of your premiums to your employer, plus what you pay in premiums and then added in the costs of the actual healthcare of an average person with normal aging and so on, it would end up being more than $10,000 most likely.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Are you comparing premiums (from your employer) with the entire healthcare costs including the actual procedures and care under a single payer system?

        If you took the cost of your premiums to your employer, plus what you pay in premiums and then added in the costs of the actual healthcare of an average person with normal aging and so on, it would end up being more than $10,000 most likely.
        If everyone paying into the insurance provider is paying about what they're getting for my family of four (about 20K per year) then there is no way the insurance company would be able to pay for the healthcare for everyone in their system in order to make a profit. In short, for some reason the insurance company can get the job done for about $5K per person - or roughly half the cost of coverage in the proposed California plan. BTW, the health care benefits follow us into retirement so that includes total costs for the elderly who've retired.
        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
          The estimated cost for single payer in California is 400 billion per year.

          Cost: 400 Billion Per Year
          Residents: 40 Million

          That comes out to ten thousand dollars per person.
          That is more than 2X what my family/employer pays for healthcare in Michigan.
          Denmark handles its entire public and universally available health sector for four thousand dollars per person, per year. Probably because our government is good at having tough price negotiations with companies, so they don't just raise their premiums without getting punished for it.

          The best argument I can find against universal healthcare in the US, is that its government isn't competent enough to do it. However I think you guys will eventually get it, after you've tried and failed at everything else.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            The only thing I can conclude about this, is that the US is really bad at handling big scale bureaucracy. Denmark handles its entire public and universally available health sector for 4k$ per person, per year. Probably because our government is good at having tough price negotiations with companies, so they don't just raise their premiums without getting punished for it.
            In Denmark the government may have been about getting healthcare to its citizens.
            In the USA the government is about padding the lives of the oligarchy.

            In defense of the USA I'd remind you that Denmark has 1/8 the population of California - there are likely more illegal aliens in California than the entire population of Denmark (official figures put it at half) - so it is a considerably much larger project than anything Denmark has to handle.

            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            The best argument I can find about universal healthcare in the US, is that its government isn't competent enough to do it.
            This may be the reason why conservatives in the USA consider liberals in the USA to be stupid.
            This may be the reason why liberals about Europe consider conservatives in the USA to be cruel.

            After watching the Veteran's Hospital fiasco, after being shown that the government has stolen Social Security Funds the liberals in our country still think it is a good idea to turn even more of our money over to the morons who've been stealing it for decades. That means American liberals are objectively stupid. However, to be against single payer healthcare in a country where the government is honest enough to actually manage it - well, that would make a person cruel. It makes sense to be liberal if you've a good government. We in the USA do not have that luxury.
            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              However I think you guys will eventually get it, after you've tried and failed at everything else.
              That is what Churchill said; America always does the right, after it exhausted every other possibility.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm still not convinced that government run healthcare is the right thing. Every objective report I've ever read showed that our healthcare system pre-Obamacare, even with all of its faults, was still superior to most "socialist" healthcare programs. In many ways it was vastly superior.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                  In Denmark the government may have been about getting healthcare to its citizens.
                  In the USA the government is about padding the lives of the oligarchy.

                  In defense of the USA I'd remind you that Denmark has 1/8 the population of California - there are likely more illegal aliens in California than the entire population of Denmark (official figures put it at half) - so it is a considerably much larger project than anything Denmark has to handle.
                  So it could be cheaper because of the economies of scaling?
                  After watching the Veteran's Hospital fiasco, after being shown that the government has stolen Social Security Funds the liberals in our country still think it is a good idea to turn even more of our money over to the morons who've been stealing it for decades. That means American liberals are objectively stupid.
                  Unless they oppose the government and are actually proposing to turn money over to a new one.
                  However, to be against single payer healthcare in a country where the government is honest enough to actually manage it - well, that would make a person cruel. It makes sense to be liberal if you've a good government. We in the USA do not have that luxury.
                  You make a lot of sense. Are you feeling ok?
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I'm still not convinced that government run healthcare is the right thing. Every objective report I've ever read showed that our healthcare system pre-Obamacare, even with all of its faults, was still superior to most "socialist" healthcare programs. In many ways it was vastly superior.
                    A system where people die because they don't have enough money is inferior to a system where people don't die because they don't have enough money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      So it could be cheaper because of the economies of scaling?
                      The figures I cited where the pro single health care people's own estimates.
                      Apparently, the scaling isn't working in California like it does in Denmark.

                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      Unless they oppose the government and are actually proposing to turn money over to a new one.
                      Don't tell me you buy that rot that we have a two party system in the USA.
                      We have one party, the Cash, Cocaine, and Call Girls party.
                      There is no substantive difference between Democrats and Republicans.

                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      You make a lot of sense. Are you feeling ok?
                      Yes, which means I'll be dead in a week.
                      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        A system where people die because they don't have enough money is inferior to a system where people don't die because they don't have enough money.
                        Where does this end?

                        Did you know that new Volvos are the highest rated vehicles for safety?
                        Not everyone can afford a new Volvo but using your logic the US Government owes everyone who wants a car a brand new Volvo.
                        To deny people a brand new Volvo - to force them to drive the junky 2002 Ford Escort - is allowing them to die because they don't have mad Benjamins.

                        When liberals push for this stuff with tear jerker arguments they never have to delineate the cutoff point when someone just flat out has to die.
                        It is a dishonest tactic.
                        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                          Unless they oppose the government and are actually proposing to turn money over to a new one.
                          The figures I cited where the Don't tell me you buy that rot that we have a two party system in the USA.
                          We have one party, the Cash, Cocaine, and Call Girls party.
                          There is no substantive difference between Democrats and Republicans.
                          For 'government' read 'depublicrans'.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                            Where does this end?

                            Did you know that new Volvos are the highest rated vehicles for safety?
                            Not everyone can afford a new Volvo but using your logic the US Government owes everyone who wants a car a brand new Volvo.
                            To deny people a brand new Volvo - to force them to drive the junky 2002 Ford Escort - is allowing them to die because they don't have mad Benjamins.

                            When liberals push for this stuff with tear jerker arguments they never have to delineate the cutoff point when someone just flat out has to die.
                            It is a dishonest tactic.
                            Your analogy would have worked if many other countries had already bought their citizens new Volvos to great effect. How can criticism of a system because it is fundamentally based in poor people's lives being valued less than rich people's not be rationalized as "tear jerker arguments" by the self-centered or the gullible? It's a dishonest tactic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                              A system where people die because they don't have enough money is inferior to a system where people don't die because they don't have enough money.
                              How about a system where people die no matter how much money they have? An inefficient healthcare system is bad no matter how much it costs.

                              Comment

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