Woman, what are you doing out of the kitchen?!!

[justgin]

But we're also not Muslim.

So, what are y'all?

[rogue06]

Now if the husband breaks these rules, I am still wondering if the Quran makes any provision for the wife.

Islamic tradition emphasize that women are the property of their husbands: “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘If a husband calls his wife to his bed [to have sex] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.’” (al-Bukhari – this hadith is repeated in many other places). This has been enshrined into Islamic Law: “The husband is only obliged to support his wife when she gives herself to him or offers to, meaning she allows him full enjoyment of her person and does not refuse him sex at any time of the night or day” (“‘Umdat al-Salik, m11.9, emphasis added). Property has few if any rights.

[saladfingers]

I am just thinking that the Quran itself, does not condone wife beating unless she brings harm to the family. All other interpretations from Muslim scholars aside. I am interested in what the Quran alone says about the issue. And from my understanding, there is only one small passage in the Quran that says anything about it, and that can be interpreted as saying to beat them lightly if they are fostering dysfunction in the family with immature behaviour...just like spanking kids I suupose.

[saladfingers]

I don't think anyone ought to be beaten, that's degrading. I wouldn't even beat a dog. And if he's "into that sort of thing" then beating would encourage his drunken behavior, yes?

What about spank? Would you spank a dog? Or maybe a child?How about a monkey?

[saladfingers]

Islamic tradition emphasize that women are the property of their husbands: “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘If a husband calls his wife to his bed [to have sex] and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.’” (al-Bukhari – this hadith is repeated in many other places). This has been enshrined into Islamic Law: “The husband is only obliged to support his wife when she gives herself to him or offers to, meaning she allows him full enjoyment of her person and does not refuse him sex at any time of the night or day” (“‘Umdat al-Salik, m11.9, emphasis added). Property has few if any rights.

Like I said before, I am trying to separate here, the wheat from the chaff. I am not interested in anything that has been "enshrined into Islamic Law", but rather what the Quran, that is, the Bible of Islam says.

[rogue06]

I am just thinking that the Quran itself, does not condone wife beating unless she brings harm to the family. All other interpretations from Muslim scholars aside. I am interested in what the Quran alone says about the issue. And from my understanding, there is only one small passage in the Quran that says anything about it, and that can be interpreted as saying to beat them lightly if they are fostering dysfunction in the family with immature behaviour...just like spanking kids I suupose.

Unlike Christianity which has one holy text, in Islam the various hadiths have equal standing with the qur'an (though there is vehement disagreement among Shia and Sunni over which books are officially accepted as hadiths). The point being you can't separate the qur'an from the hadiths if you want to know what Islam teaches on the matter.

[justgin]

What about spank? Would you spank a dog? Or maybe a child?How about a monkey?

Spank? Yes. Beat? No!

If a wife can be spanked or beaten for misbehaving, then so should a husband. If that were the case in Islam, i bet there'd be far fewer beatings altogether.

*Edit: Just because i would spank my child doesn't make it right for one adult to spank the other as a form of discipline. Islam treats women like children.....no, Islam treats women like dogs.

[saladfingers]

9

Unlike Christianity which has one holy text, in Islam the various hadiths have equal standing with the qur'an (though there is vehement disagreement among Shia and Sunni over which books are officially accepted as hadiths). The point being you can't separate the qur'an from the hadiths if you want to know what Islam teaches on the matter.

I wonder if there will ever be a reformation in Islam, where the Hadiths are completely rejected as uncanonical. I'm talking a 99 Theses reformation!

[justgin]

What about spank? Would you spank...a monkey?

[saladfingers]

From my understanding, these sources only instruct the man to spank and not beat.


Also, to talk about brutality:

“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

That's from the Old Testament. Of course there is a context to this, but I could see how a world religion could have emerged and if that religious community formed along simlar lines as Islam did, but with the Old Testament instead of the Quran, passages like this would have justified laws similar to Sharia.