The limits of mythical truth

[Cow Poke]

So Jesus' Resurrection was just to put the icing on the cake?

You're being silly, Spart. This not like you.
How you got there from what I said is beyond me.

Do you actually have a question?

[phaedrus]

I think the issue here is more about who gets to decide who's in the club. Christians all seem to have their own definitions of what exactly includes or excludes one from Christianity. Those definitions can be extremely narrow or extremely broad depending on whom you ask. Thus for certain YEC's who you all know but I won't specify a literal interpretation of Genesis is a qualification for being a 'real' Christian.

In a sense I think Christianity is blurry around the edges and always has been. Approaches to interpretation of scripture are varied. In the end, do they matter at all? After all, we can only follow where our reason and faith take us and it is obvious they take many of us to different places.

[Cow Poke]

I think the issue here is more about who gets to decide who's in the club. Christians all seem to have their own definitions of what exactly includes or excludes one from Christianity. Those definitions can be extremely narrow or extremely broad depending on whom you ask. Thus for certain YEC's who you all know but I won't specify a literal interpretation of Genesis is a qualification for being a 'real' Christian.

In a sense I think Christianity is blurry around the edges and always has been. Approaches to interpretation of scripture are varied. In the end, do they matter at all? After all, we can only follow where our reason and faith take us and it is obvious they take many of us to different places.

Which is why, of course, I start with the resurrection. What sets Christ apart (in Christianity's view) from other "religious leaders" is that He rose from the dead. You can't have "Christianity" with a Christ who died and did not rise from the grave. Rather than start with "did God Create the world, and did He do it in 6 days or over a period of millions of years".... I start with what, IMO, is the single most important aspect of Christianity. After agreeing that Christ rose from the Dead, we can work backwards to "could He have sinned" and all the other questions.

[phaedrus]

Which is why, of course, I start with the resurrection. What sets Christ apart (in Christianity's view) from other "religious leaders" is that He rose from the dead. You can't have "Christianity" with a Christ who died and did not rise from the grave. Rather than start with "did God Create the world, and did He do it in 6 days or over a period of millions of years".... I start with what, IMO, is the single most important aspect of Christianity. After agreeing that Christ rose from the Dead, we can work backwards to "could He have sinned" and all the other questions.

I regret that even that simple starting point is open to interpretation. Was it a real physical resurrection? Was it in some sense a 'spiritual' event? I've read Borg, Fox and Spong who I suppose most here would cast as heretics outside the faith but I find their integrity and sincerity compelling and admirable. So even the question 'Did Christ rise from the dead?' can elicit responses ''It depends what you mean by that".

[Cow Poke]

I regret that even that simple starting point is open to interpretation. Was it a real physical resurrection? Was it in some sense a 'spiritual' event? I've read Borg, Fox and Spong who I suppose most here would cast as heretics outside the faith but I find their integrity and sincerity compelling and admirable. So even the question 'Did Christ rise from the dead?' can elicit responses ''It depends what you mean by that".

Understood. But I would still say that's the starting point, IMO. If we can't agree on that, "original sin" or many of the other concepts don't stand a chance.

But interesting points, Phaed.

[Thersites]

You're being silly, Spart. This not like you.
How you got there from what I said is beyond me.

Do you actually have a question?

You said that the resurrection was necessary to open the gates of Heaven. You also said that Heaven was the icing on the cake. Yes, I did make a bit of a leap, but what else did the Resurrection do besides make Heaven possible?

[Cow Poke]

You said that the resurrection was necessary to open the gates of Heaven.

not exactly, but, yeah....

You also said that Heaven was the icing on the cake. Yes, I did make a bit of a leap, but what else did the Resurrection do besides make Heaven possible?

It validated Christ's claims -- He said He had the power of life and death, and to lay His life down and pick it up again. He claimed to BE the resurrection (John 11).

Had He not risen from the dead, we'd have the "liar or lunatic" scenario.

[Thersites]

It validated Christ's claims -- He said He had the power of life and death, and to lay His life down and pick it up again. He claimed to BE the resurrection (John 11).

Had He not risen from the dead, we'd have the "liar or lunatic" scenario.

And where would that leave us? What would it say about Jesus' ethical claims?

[Cow Poke]

And where would that leave us? What would it say about Jesus' ethical claims?

I simply suggested a starting place. I see no point arguing for hours or days over a bunch of issues when, IMO, they all pale in significance to the resurrection of Christ.

[Thersites]

I simply suggested a starting place. I see no point arguing for hours or days over a bunch of issues when, IMO, they all pale in significance to the resurrection of Christ.

That is a thread-killing sentiment... can't exactly delve into these issues if you're content just treading water.

[Cow Poke]

That is a thread-killing sentiment... can't exactly delve into these issues if you're content just treading water.

Then rig for silent running, Spart, and go deep!