Quran and Bible Similarities and Contradictions

[Tayseer]

At first I’d like to talk a bit about The six Sunni articles of belief which are:

1. Belief in God, the one and only one worthy of all worship (Tawheed)
2. Belief in the Angels (malai’ka).

3. Belief in the Books sent by God :
(Only Five books are mentioned by name in the Quran they are: Quran ,Torah, Gospel of Jesus peace be upon him, Psalms of David peace be upon him and the scriptures of Abraham peace be upon him but we believe that there are other books were revealed from God but their names were not mentioned )

1. Belief in all the Messengers sent by God
2. Belief in the Day of Judgment and in the Resurrection (life after death).
3. Belief in Destiny (Fate) in Arabic: Qadar قدر.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا آمِنُوا بِاللَّـهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ مِن قَبْلُۚ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِاللَّـهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا بَعِيدًا﴿١٣٦﴾</SPAN>

4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.</SPAN>

آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَۚ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِۚ وَقَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَاۖ غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ﴿٢٨٥﴾</SPAN>

2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."</SPAN>
How do Muslims believe in these books?
We Muslims believe that the current Torah and The Gospels of Jesus peace be upon him are mixed between the true Words of GOD and man's corruption. In other words, we believe that the existed versions of the Torah and Gospels are not the same ones which were sent by God cause they had been distorted and the true ones in which we believe guidance and light shine from don’t exist anymore. That explains why it seems Muhammad peace be upon him quoted Quran from Bible. Muhammad’s message is nothing but anextension of the previous messages of prophets (Quran:4:125).
We believe that all prophets including Muhammad peace be upon them were sent with one massage but different laws. This message is:
Quran 2:163And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.</SPAN>
Finally (b4 enrolling in the Biblical contradictions), I’d like to say:
If Muhammad really quoted Quran from Bible then why he only quoted the true things and left the wrong ones?!!



Biblical Contradictions and Errors:

Is it a Failed prophecy?
In the story mentioned in the beginning of the 11th chapter of Genesis 1-9
Genesis 11:4
And they said, Come, let us make a town, and a tower whose top will go up as high as heaven; and let us make a great name for ourselves, so that we may not be wanderers over the face of the earth.
Genesis 11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
If we were to take Genesis 11:6 as a Divine Promise or Prophecy from GOD to never allow man to build any tower that reaches the sky (building a sky scrapper) then man today have obviously and overwhelmingly and decisively destroyed this prophesy and God has broken his promise.

Scientific Errors:
The verses from 6-8 in the 6th chapter of Proverbs state that aunts have no commander or ruler while aunts as it’s been proven nowadays have a commander ,live in colonies and ranks of rulership they even take slaves in after their wars !

It’s declared in the 4th chapter of Daniel verse 10 1nd 11 that the earth is flat
10: Thus [were] the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof [was] great.
11: The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth.

In James 5:3 gold and silver RUST
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

In John 12:24 dead seeds produce new seeds which is scientifically wrong
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Contradictions :
In 2Samuel 6:23
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
But in 2 Samuel 21:8 Michal had 5 sons:
But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite.

In 2 Samuel 10:18 David slew 700 and 40,000 horsemen :
And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians `the men of' seven hundred chariots, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, so that he died there.
But in 1 Chronicles 19:18 David slew 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen:
But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand [men which fought in] chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.
In 1 Kings 16:6-8 26th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel but in 2 Chronicles 16:1 it’s mentioned : 36th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel!

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
He is 22 year old in 2 Kings 8:26 :
Two and twenty years old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name [was] Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
But in 2 Chronicles 22:2 Ahaziah was 42 !! :
Forty and two years old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also [was] Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
It’s after in 2 Samuel 5 and 6 but it’s before in I Chronicles 13 and 14!!


I have so many hundreds contradictions but
after explaining the previous ones.

[Bowman]

I have so many hundreds contradictions but
after explaining the previous ones.

No, brother...

What you have done is to slavishly cut-n-paste old worn-out material googled from the web without even so much as a reference for credit.

Don't you have anything fresh that you have actually researched yourself?

[Tayseer]

No, brother... What you have done is to slavishly cut-n-paste old worn-out material googled from the web without even so much as a reference for credit. Don't you have anything fresh that you have actually researched yourself?

cut-n-paste !! I did not do that I chose some specific errors to be discussed but it seems that they are not going to be discussed !!

in fact you were the one who cuts and pastes on Maurice's and the quranic scientific facts !! You don't know Arabic but still arguing as if u were able to get what you said!!

your other replies insures that you could not get my explanations to understand cause they were purely Linguistic .


Anyways it's your time and other Christians to defend and explain these errors . Don't run.

[Bowman]

cut-n-paste !! I did not do that I chose some specific errors to be discussed but it seems that they are not going to be discussed !!

in fact you were the one who cuts and pastes on Maurice's and the quranic scientific facts !! You don't know Arabic but still arguing as if u were able to get what you said!!

your other replies insures that you could not get my explanations to understand cause they were purely Linguistic .


Anyways it's your time and other Christians to defend and explain these errors . Don't run.

What you have done is merely copied from the web, googled material.

If you keep googling, these very same so-called 'contradictions' are explained....right on down the line. however, posting googled material and replying with googled material is hardly discussion and against the forum rules as you should know by now.


What is more interesting, is how you can defend what you state here...

We Muslims believe that the current Torah and The Gospels of Jesus peace be upon him are mixed between the true Words of GOD and man's corruption. In other words, we believe that the existed versions of the Torah and Gospels are not the same ones which were sent by God cause they had been distorted and the true ones in which we believe

So...show us the Biblical verses which you trust.

Then show us where the Koran states not to trust the written text of the Holy Bible.

Good luck...

[Tayseer]

it seems that you're very convinced that i've cut-n-paste my post !! Don't worry the admin would do its job if so.
let's put the Biblical errors mentioned previously aside and start a new ones cause it seems you won't defend them cause they were copied and not my original thoughts!! (even if pasting them is true they still exist in your Bible!!! that doesn't help denying them!! what a reason not to start explaining them 'confounded'!!
I want to discuss the followed Biblical verses:
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Mark 14:36
And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
John 12:27
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

In the first three verses it is clear that Jesus prayed to Father to prevent him Crucifixion but in John 12:27 he did not pray .
1- The question is did Jesus pray or not?
2- If Jesus prayed to the father to prevent him Crucifixion then it’s clear that Jesus didn’t want to be crucified ??!!
3- In Luke 22:42 and Mark 14:36 Jesus has no will he follows the will of the father!! Is that true?
The last point I want to discus is : Why Jesus was crucified ? in a Christian point of view
In Islam we believe that he wasn’t Quran 4:157:
and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.

[Bowman]

it seems that you're very convinced that i've cut-n-paste my post !! Don't worry the admin would do its job if so.
let's put the Biblical errors mentioned previously aside and start a new ones cause it seems you won't defend them cause they were copied and not my original thoughts!! (even if pasting them is true they still exist in your Bible!!! that doesn't help denying them!! what a reason not to start explaining them 'confounded'!!
I want to discuss the followed Biblical verses:
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Mark 14:36
And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
John 12:27
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

In the first three verses it is clear that Jesus prayed to Father to prevent him Crucifixion but in John 12:27 he did not pray .
1- The question is did Jesus pray or not?
2- If Jesus prayed to the father to prevent him Crucifixion then it’s clear that Jesus didn’t want to be crucified ??!!
3- In Luke 22:42 and Mark 14:36 Jesus has no will he follows the will of the father!! Is that true?
The last point I want to discus is : Why Jesus was crucified ? in a Christian point of view
In Islam we believe that he wasn’t Quran 4:157:
and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.

‘Original thoughts’…..you have yet to have a single one, brother…

All of your googled ‘contradictions’ are addressed here…

http://www.radicaltruth.net/uploads/101contr-New.pdf

[Tayseer]

‘Original thoughts’…..you have yet to have a single one, brother… All of your googled ‘contradictions’ are addressed here… http://www.radicaltruth.net/uploads/101contr-New.pdf

Thanks for the link it seems very useful :) !!!

The last point I want to discus is : Why Jesus was crucified ? in a Christian point of view

Ain't any answer !!

[Tayseer]

‘Original thoughts’…..you have yet to have a single one, brother… All of your googled ‘contradictions’ are addressed here… http://www.radicaltruth.net/uploads/101contr-New.pdf

Thanks for the link it seems very useful :) !!!

Are you running with such excuses?!!

The last point I want to discus is : Why Jesus was crucified ? in a Christian point of view

Ain't any answer !!

[Bowman]

The last point I want to discus is : Why Jesus was crucified ? in a Christian point of view
In Islam we believe that he wasn’t Quran 4:157:
and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.

It really never ceases to amaze me how islam has cookie-cutter manufactured all of its adherents.

Consider the ‘beyond belief’ theology of Islam. Muslims, like yourself, throw out all logic and go for broke in a last-ditch attempt to deny Jesus’ crucifixion until death upon the cross.

Here is a theology that plucks one single solitary word (out of 77,701 words), in one single solitary verse (out of 6,666 verses), in one single solitary chapter (out of its 114 chapters), as ‘evidence’ that Jesus was not crucified until death upon the cross.

One word, in one verse…that’s it!

Sci-fi movies have a better plot than Islam does with its so-called theology.

Here, we will demonstrate (once again, drum roll…) just how flimsy Islamic theology is, and how Islam stands or falls based upon the mis-interpretation of ONE WORD…

وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.




To overcome the Muslim mindset, we need to first define the Arabic word that has been misinterpreted by Islam.


Here is the classic Arabic definition for "ma"...

ما= “ma”

“ma” definition:

Conjunctive pronoun. That; which; that which; whatsoever; what; as; as much; in such a manner as; as much as; as for as; any kind; when; how. Does not, as a rule, refer to reasonable things, but instances to the contrary sometimes occur. It is one of those particles, which, in conditional propositions, govern the verb in the conditional mood; it is frequently a mere expletive. It is also a negative adverb, Not; in general it denies a circumstance either present, or of past, but little remote from the present; it governs the attribute in the accusative, thus it is a negative particle when placed before the perfect as in 53.2; or before a pronoun as in 68.2; or before an demonstrative noun as in 12.31. The particle, when joined to the perfect, denies the past; when joined to the imperfect, the present.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3016
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 2, p. 300
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 523 - 524
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 135 - 136




As we can see below..."ma", when joined to "wa", is simply a filler-word in this ayah...

وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Certainly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and certainly whom they followed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.


Couple this, to the very next ayah, as thus…



بل رفعه الله إليه وكان الله عزيزا حكيما

Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman

4.158 But “allah”, he raised Him to him, and “allah” mighty, wise.




4.157 & 4.158 tell us of its most likely Biblical source...

This One given to you by the before-determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you having taken by lawless hands, having crucified Him, you killed Him. But God raised Him up, loosing the throes of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it. (Act 2.23 - 24)


As we can see, 4.157 & 4.158 are simply parroting NT material...


Thus, context is clear that in 4.157 “wama” is simply governing the verb in the conditional mood – which is positive….NOT negative.


Further, rendering this Islamic one-hit-wonder ayah as a negative would force other Koranic ayahs into contradiction.



As further evidence that 4.157 confirms Jesus’ death upon the cross, all the Koranic crucifixion instances are shown here, which confirm that the Koran always describes a crucifixion event with complete certainty of death…



• 5.33…they will be crucified till death
• 7.124…I will surely crucify you till death
• 12.41…so will be crucified till death
• 20.71…and I will surely crucify you till death
• 26.49…and I will surely crucify you till death


Death through crucifixion is always mandated in the Koran.

Thus, there is no reason at all to believe that 4.157 would break this trend.

Jesus was killed upon the cross as stated in the Koran.

[Tayseer]

Are you trying to create a new Arabic that supports your claims?!!
You’ve been breaking its rules , giving it new grammars and changing its syntax, morphology, rhetoric and lexicon !!
Opposing Erudite Arabic Language linguists and grammarians ! as the well known influential linguist and grammarian Ibn Hisham Alansari and others like:
Ibn Jinni, Abu Baker Aljurjany , Ibn Malek, Sībawayh and Al- Farahidi!!!
This kind of trick would never manage to success anyone but with those who can’t speak Arabic well and trust what you tell them about!! You don’t even know Arabic !!!!!
If the Quran really states that Jesus peace be upon him was killed upon the cross as you claimed then:

Whythe Arab disbelievers and speaking Arabic Christians did not catch that as a mistake against Muhammad peace be upon him when he revealed theses verses for them??
Simply, since they were connoisseurs of Arabic language and rhetoric they did not find that these verses 4:157 – 4:158 contradict with what Muhammad peace be upon him claimed – that Jesus peace be upon him was not crucified -.

Anyway, I’m gonna rectify your awful Arabic grammical mistakes (or claims) :

First, The E’rab (nearly means :Syntax) of verse 4:157:

جملة "وماقتلوه" مستأنفة. جملة "ولكنشُبّه" معطوفةعلىجملة "صلبوه" فيمحلنصب،وجملة "وإنالذين ..." معطوفةعلىجملة "شُبّه". وجملة "مالهمبهمنعلم" معترضةبينالمتعاطفين،و "علم" مبتدأو"من" زائدةو "اتباع" مستثنىمنقطع. وجملة "وماقتلوه" معطوفةعلىجملة "ماقتلوه" الأولى،و "يقينا" نائبمفعولمطلقأي: قَتْلايقينا.

Means that: the ‘w’ was for iste’naf and ‘ma’ was for negation (Nafee).

Also, as I’ve previously mentioned (I think in my other Maurice’s thread) that it’s impossible to be recognized as an interpreter of the |Quran unless you master Arabic this is the AlJalalayn’s interpretation of 4: 157 and 4:158 :

وَقَوْلِهِمْإِنَّاقَتَلْنَاالْمَسِيحَعِيسَىابْنَمَرْيَمَرَسُولَاللَّـهِوَمَاقَتَلُوهُوَمَاصَلَبُوهُوَلَـٰكِنشُبِّهَلَهُمْۚوَإِنَّالَّذِينَاخْتَلَفُوافِيهِلَفِيشَكٍّمِّنْهُۚمَالَهُمبِهِمِنْعِلْمٍإِلَّااتِّبَاعَالظَّنِّۚوَمَاقَتَلُوهُيَقِينًا﴿١٥٧﴾</SPAN>

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wainna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan</SPAN>

4:157 and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.</SPAN>

بَلرَّفَعَهُاللَّـهُإِلَيْهِۚوَكَانَاللَّـهُعَزِيزًاحَكِيمًا﴿١٥٨﴾</SPAN>

Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman
</SPAN>
4:158 God raised him up to Himself. God is Majestic and All-wise.</SPAN>

Tafsir AlJalalayn:
(4:157 And for their saying, boastfully, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God’, as they claim: in other words, for all of these [reasons] We have punished them. God, exalted be He, says, in repudiating their claim to have killed him: And yet they did not slay him nor did they crucify him, but he, the one slain and crucified, who was an associate of theirs [the Jews], was given the resemblance, of Jesus. In other words, God cast his [Jesus’s] likeness to him and so they thought it was him [Jesus]. And those who disagree concerning him, that is, concerning Jesus, are surely in doubt regarding, the slaying of, him, for some of them said, when they saw the slain man: the face is that of Jesus, but the body is not his, and so it is not he; and others said: no, it is he. They do not have any knowledge of, the slaying of, him, only the pursuit of conjecture (illā ittibā‘a l-zann, is a discontinuous exception) in other words: ‘instead, they follow conjecture regarding him, that which they imagined [they saw]’; and they did not slay him for certain (yaqīnan, a circumstantial qualifier emphasising the denial of the slaying). 4:158 Nay, God raised him up to Him. God is ever Mighty, in His kingdom, Wise, in His actions).

Also you can refer to other Tafsirs for instance: the Tafsir of Ibn Katheer , AlQurtubi and Al-Zamakhshari’s Tafsir known as (Al-Kashshaaf) in which he - Al-Zamakhshari- analyzed each verse linguistically and literately .

At the end of this part of my reply I’d like to follow it with these quotations:

The Qur'an in its original Arabic dress has a seductive beauty and charm of its own Couched in concise and exalted style, its brief pregnant sentences, often rhymed, possess an

expressive force and explosive energy which it is extremely difficult to convey by literal word for word translation.(From John Naish's book, The Wisdom of the Qur'an)

Sachiko Murata & William C. Chittick in their article The Quran mentioned:
(‘A translation of the Koran is not the Koran., but an interpretation of its meaning. The Koran has been translated dozens of times into English. Each translation represents one person's understanding of the text, each is significantly different from the others, and none is the Koran itself. There is but one Word, but there are as many interpretations of that Word as there are readers…’
‘Notice that we make a distinction between the Koran and a translation of the Koran. This is normal procedure in the Muslim view of things, in marked contrast with the Christian view, according to which the Bible is Bible, no matter what language it may be written in. For Muslims, the divine Word assumed a specific, Arabic form, and that form is as essential as the meaning that the words convey. Hence only the Arabic Koran is the Koran, and translations are simply interpretations….’
‘For Westerners, the Koran is an extremely difficult text to appreciate, especially in translationn...’ .)

The second part of the reply is:
Non of my previous questions was answered … not at all. … only running from answering tries !

At the end:

The Bible also says that Jesus wasn’t crucified ! ... I’m ready to prove that just tell me when :)

[Bowman]

If the Quran really states that Jesus peace be upon him was killed upon the cross as you claimed then:

Whythe Arab disbelievers and speaking Arabic Christians did not catch that as a mistake against Muhammad peace be upon him when he revealed theses verses for them??
Simply, since they were connoisseurs of Arabic language and rhetoric they did not find that these verses 4:157 – 4:158 contradict with what Muhammad peace be upon him claimed – that Jesus peace be upon him was not crucified -.

Arab Christians already figured-out the truth regarding Jesus’ crucifixion – hence, they are Christian.

Come on, brother…

Anyway, I’m gonna rectify your awful Arabic grammical mistakes (or claims) :

First, The E’rab (nearly means :Syntax) of verse 4:157:

جملة "وماقتلوه" مستأنفة. جملة "ولكنشُبّه" معطوفةعلىجملة "صلبوه" فيمحلنصب،وجملة "وإنالذين ..." معطوفةعلىجملة "شُبّه". وجملة "مالهمبهمنعلم" معترضةبينالمتعاطفين،و "علم" مبتدأو"من" زائدةو "اتباع" مستثنىمنقطع. وجملة "وماقتلوه" معطوفةعلىجملة "ماقتلوه" الأولى،و "يقينا" نائبمفعولمطلقأي: قَتْلايقينا.

Means that: the ‘w’ was for iste’naf and ‘ma’ was for negation (Nafee).

Also, as I’ve previously mentioned (I think in my other Maurice’s thread) that it’s impossible to be recognized as an interpreter of the |Quran unless you master Arabic this is the AlJalalayn’s interpretation of 4: 157 and 4:158 :

وَقَوْلِهِمْإِنَّاقَتَلْنَاالْمَسِيحَعِيسَىابْنَمَرْيَمَرَسُولَاللَّـهِوَمَاقَتَلُوهُوَمَاصَلَبُوهُوَلَـٰكِنشُبِّهَلَهُمْۚوَإِنَّالَّذِينَاخْتَلَفُوافِيهِلَفِيشَكٍّمِّنْهُۚمَالَهُمبِهِمِنْعِلْمٍإِلَّااتِّبَاعَالظَّنِّۚوَمَاقَتَلُوهُيَقِينًا﴿١٥٧﴾</SPAN>

Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wainna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan</SPAN>

4:157 and their statement that they murdered Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God, when, in fact, they could not have murdered him or crucified him. They, in fact, murdered someone else by mistake. Even those who disputed (the question of whether or not Jesus was murdered) did not have a shred of evidence. All that they knew about it was mere conjecture. They certainly could not have murdered Jesus.</SPAN>

بَلرَّفَعَهُاللَّـهُإِلَيْهِۚوَكَانَاللَّـهُعَزِيزًاحَكِيمًا﴿١٥٨﴾</SPAN>

Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman
</SPAN>
4:158 God raised him up to Himself. God is Majestic and All-wise.</SPAN>

Tafsir AlJalalayn:
(4:157 And for their saying, boastfully, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God’, as they claim: in other words, for all of these [reasons] We have punished them. God, exalted be He, says, in repudiating their claim to have killed him: And yet they did not slay him nor did they crucify him, but he, the one slain and crucified, who was an associate of theirs [the Jews], was given the resemblance, of Jesus. In other words, God cast his [Jesus’s] likeness to him and so they thought it was him [Jesus]. And those who disagree concerning him, that is, concerning Jesus, are surely in doubt regarding, the slaying of, him, for some of them said, when they saw the slain man: the face is that of Jesus, but the body is not his, and so it is not he; and others said: no, it is he. They do not have any knowledge of, the slaying of, him, only the pursuit of conjecture (illā ittibā‘a l-zann, is a discontinuous exception) in other words: ‘instead, they follow conjecture regarding him, that which they imagined [they saw]’; and they did not slay him for certain (yaqīnan, a circumstantial qualifier emphasising the denial of the slaying). 4:158 Nay, God raised him up to Him. God is ever Mighty, in His kingdom, Wise, in His actions).

How are your googled web renderings going to prove anything, brother.

All you are doing is providing more unreferenced opinion.

At the end:

The Bible also says that Jesus wasn’t crucified ! ... I’m ready to prove that just tell me when :)

So...you deny what your Koran states and now you want to use the very same Biblical scripture that you just finished saying was unreliable as evidence for your position?!

Come on, brother...

Quote for us the Biblical scripture that you trust as truth.

We are waiting.

[Bowman]

Still waiting, brother.

You said that you were ready and willing to show Biblical verses that you trust as truth for your position.

Let's see those Biblical verses that you trust.

[Bowman]

Need more time to tell us about those Biblical verses that you trust as truth, brother?

[Bowman]

The Biblical verses you trust as a follower of islam....where are they?