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Who buried Jesus?

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  • Who buried Jesus?

    Okay, here's a question for the forum. Who do you think buried Jesus? According to Acts 13:29 it was the Jewish authorities who took Jesus from the tree and laid him in a tomb. This is a plausible explanation for what happened, because the type of tomb cited in the gospels was believed to have been loaned out to Jews by the Jewish authorities - after which the families would take custody of a body and move it to their own tomb or grave. They did this because burying bodies along with doing other work was forbidden on the Sabbath.

    The gospels on the other hand claim that a disciple took possession of the body and put it in his own tomb. But critics have pointed out that the gospel writers blamed the Jewish authorities for the death of Jesus, not the Roman authorities who were the ones really to blame. Because of this early anti-Semitic belief, details that showed any good will of the Jewish authorities might have been changed by early Christian thought before the gospels were written down, making the explanation that a disciple took the body less plausible.

    Another possibility of course is that the Romans took the body down and buried it in a mass grave somewhere.

    Or that the family took it and laid it to rest.

  • #2
    Aractus,

    You are reading into the text what the text does not say.

    The narrative as it is in that part of the text has three parts,

    1) Fulfilled what was written.
    2) Taken down from the tree.
    3) Laid in the tomb.

    The one Greek word translated "they took down" is καθελοντες which is verb, tense being second aorist, active voice, mood - participle, and nominative being the subject, and plural in that more than one person doing the action "took down." And that "they" are limited to that act of "took down" in that context.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Aractus View Post
      Okay, here's a question for the forum. Who do you think buried Jesus? According to Acts 13:29 it was the Jewish authorities who took Jesus from the tree and laid him in a tomb. This is a plausible explanation for what happened, because the type of tomb cited in the gospels was believed to have been loaned out to Jews by the Jewish authorities - after which the families would take custody of a body and move it to their own tomb or grave. They did this because burying bodies along with doing other work was forbidden on the Sabbath.

      The gospels on the other hand claim that a disciple took possession of the body and put it in his own tomb. But critics have pointed out that the gospel writers blamed the Jewish authorities for the death of Jesus, not the Roman authorities who were the ones really to blame. Because of this early anti-Semitic belief, details that showed any good will of the Jewish authorities might have been changed by early Christian thought before the gospels were written down, making the explanation that a disciple took the body less plausible.

      Another possibility of course is that the Romans took the body down and buried it in a mass grave somewhere.

      Or that the family took it and laid it to rest.
      What ever any authorities did with the body, it was given to the disciples in the end.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Aractus View Post
        The gospels on the other hand claim that a disciple took possession of the body and put it in his own tomb. But critics have pointed out that the gospel writers blamed the Jewish authorities for the death of Jesus, not the Roman authorities who were the ones really to blame. Because of this early anti-Semitic belief, details that showed any good will of the Jewish authorities might have been changed by early Christian thought before the gospels were written down, making the explanation that a disciple took the body less plausible.

        Another possibility of course is that the Romans took the body down and buried it in a mass grave somewhere.

        Or that the family took it and laid it to rest.
        You've noted that there wasn't the uniform hostility between Jesus' followers and Jewish leaders that there was later. It seems pretty clear that the attitudes of Jewish leaders varied. It's hard to know what the balance was.

        The Gospels say that Joseph of Arimathea buried the body. He was friendly to Jesus, but doesn't seem to have followed Jesus around the way the folks we normally call the disciples did (though Matthew refers to him that way). They also call him a respected Jewish leader. At that time the two were not inconsistent. I would agree that Jewish leaders would be sympathetic with burying Jesus decently, heretic or not. There's evidence from Josephus that Jews would have considered leaving him on the cross impious. I don't think it's implausible that one of the leaders who was sympathetic with Jesus would have been done it. The Romans tended to leave victims of crucifixion to the elements. The only way they would have done it is to respect Jewish traditions, but I'm skeptical. Even if the family was involved, they would have had to have the consent of one or both of the authorities.

        Joseph's name is included in all four gospels. It's not impossible that this is inaccurate, but it's plausible, and the fact that the name occurs in all 4 makes me think it's likely to be true.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Aractus View Post
          Okay, here's a question for the forum. Who do you think buried Jesus? According to Acts 13:29 it was the Jewish authorities who took Jesus from the tree and laid him in a tomb. This is a plausible explanation for what happened, because the type of tomb cited in the gospels was believed to have been loaned out to Jews by the Jewish authorities - after which the families would take custody of a body and move it to their own tomb or grave. They did this because burying bodies along with doing other work was forbidden on the Sabbath.

          The gospels on the other hand claim that a disciple took possession of the body and put it in his own tomb. But critics have pointed out that the gospel writers blamed the Jewish authorities for the death of Jesus, not the Roman authorities who were the ones really to blame. Because of this early anti-Semitic belief, details that showed any good will of the Jewish authorities might have been changed by early Christian thought before the gospels were written down, making the explanation that a disciple took the body less plausible.

          Another possibility of course is that the Romans took the body down and buried it in a mass grave somewhere.

          Or that the family took it and laid it to rest.
          How come you are reading anti-semitism into this? Is this what your mindset is? Are you saying that the Jews were thus speaking badly of Jews? That would be considered an infighting or internal dispute rather than being anti-semitic.

          It may be true that gentiles were responding to the Jewish gospel more than Jews -- but these gentiles had separated from their culture in order to join the Jewish Messianic sect.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hedrick View Post
            The Gospels say that Joseph of Arimathea buried the body. He was friendly to Jesus, but doesn't seem to have followed Jesus around the way the folks we normally call the disciples did (though Matthew refers to him that way). They also call him a respected Jewish leader. At that time the two were not inconsistent. I would agree that Jewish leaders would be sympathetic with burying Jesus decently, heretic or not. There's evidence from Josephus that Jews would have considered leaving him on the cross impious. I don't think it's implausible that one of the leaders who was sympathetic with Jesus would have been done it. The Romans tended to leave victims of crucifixion to the elements. The only way they would have done it is to respect Jewish traditions, but I'm skeptical. Even if the family was involved, they would have had to have the consent of one or both of the authorities.

            Joseph's name is included in all four gospels. It's not impossible that this is inaccurate, but it's plausible, and the fact that the name occurs in all 4 makes me think it's likely to be true.
            Let's start with the premise that Joseph of Arimathea, a Jewish authority, took possession of the body. That's consistent with every account, including Acts. Was he a disciple? Well Mark doesn't say he was, neither does Luke. Matthew and John have inserted this information for whatever reason. In Acts, the person or persons who take possession of the body are not named, but it specifically says that the Jewish authorities took it and put it in a tomb.

            The gospel writers spend a lot of time telling us about everyone who Jesus knows, including his parents, his brothers, and his disciples. It even mentions some of his female associates. Yet they never mention that Joseph of Arimathea is a disciple, not once until after Jesus has been crucified. Another problem with him being a disciple is that "all twelve" of the disciples are named in the gospels (Matt 10, Luke 6), and he isn't one of them. Combine that with the fact that stone-cut tombs were known to have been owned by the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem and not known to be privately owned, and it makes it unlikely that Jesus was taken by a disciple and placed in the disciple's stone-cut tomb.

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            • #7
              Probably Joseph of Arimathea, who buried Jesus dishonorably, likely in a tomb reserved for criminals.

              John Granger Cook has an excellent book on this called Crucifixion in the Mediterranean World; he discusses Jesus' burial in an entire chapter. PM me for information.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                Let's start with the premise that Joseph of Arimathea, a Jewish authority, took possession of the body. That's consistent with every account, including Acts. Was he a disciple? Well Mark doesn't say he was, neither does Luke. Matthew and John have inserted this information for whatever reason. In Acts, the person or persons who take possession of the body are not named, but it specifically says that the Jewish authorities took it and put it in a tomb.
                It seems that Matthew and John have to soften the blow of having a member of the Sanhedrin bury Jesus, so they make him a disciple of sorts.

                The gospel writers spend a lot of time telling us about everyone who Jesus knows, including his parents, his brothers, and his disciples. It even mentions some of his female associates. Yet they never mention that Joseph of Arimathea is a disciple, not once until after Jesus has been crucified. Another problem with him being a disciple is that "all twelve" of the disciples are named in the gospels (Matt 10, Luke 6), and he isn't one of them. Combine that with the fact that stone-cut tombs were known to have been owned by the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem and not known to be privately owned, and it makes it unlikely that Jesus was taken by a disciple and placed in the disciple's stone-cut tomb.
                Not all stone-cut tombs were, there were private rock-hewn tombs. It seems to me that Jesus had more than the 12 disciples mentioned. It's been suggested that there was an inner circle (the 12) and an outer circle (probably including people like John the Elder and Aristion). I guess Joseph could've been a member of the outer circle, but I point out, it seems more likely that he's made a secret disciple to alleviate the issue that Jesus was buried by a Jew.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                  Okay, here's a question for the forum. Who do you think buried Jesus?
                  Assuming he really existed, I'd say we have no idea. I don't think the sources are reliable, and without reliable sources, we can't know what was done with the body or who did it.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                    Assuming he really existed, I'd say we have no idea. I don't think the sources are reliable, and without reliable sources, we can't know what was done with the body or who did it.
                    The 4 gospel accounts agree as who placed Jesus' body in the tomb.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                      Let's start with the premise that Joseph of Arimathea, a Jewish authority, took possession of the body. That's consistent with every account, including Acts. Was he a disciple? Well Mark doesn't say he was, neither does Luke.
                      The term "Joseph ... who also waited for the kingdom of God" is used in both Mark and Luke: that would lead to at least a possibly that he was an adherent of Christ, but perhaps not closely associated with the group. It is possible that what Matthew and John termed a disciple was not precisely the same as what Mark and Luke termed a disciple.
                      Matthew and John have inserted this information for whatever reason.
                      Reasons could vary - for example, Luke was writing to a person who did not know the geography and dialect of Jerusalem, more precise detail might be appropriate in his writing than would be needed for a writer whose audience knew both.
                      In Acts, the person or persons who take possession of the body are not named, but it specifically says that the Jewish authorities took it and put it in a tomb.
                      The Koine Greek texts may not be quite that cut and dried. Where the translations have a comma, a full stop (period) might be more appropriate. ως (host) is translated as "when" ... it means "in that manner" or "and so" for a somewhat looser translation. "They required of Pilate his removal and in that way they completed all that is written about him. They lowered him from the cross. They put him in a tomb." It certainly seems that the "they" who completed all that is written, lowered him from the cross, and buried him in a tomb would have been the same group. Luke tends to use circumlocution when he is writing of a person's death ... he avoided explicit mention of Judas' death by hanging, too (which has led to some *interesting* commentaries.) What might "they put him in a tomb" mean? This is Luke's writing ... would "they did it" necessarily mean they did it personally, even in English? In English, what can "they dug his grave mean?"

                      The gospel writers spend a lot of time telling us about everyone who Jesus knows, including his parents, his brothers, and his disciples. It even mentions some of his female associates. Yet they never mention that Joseph of Arimathea is a disciple, not once until after Jesus has been crucified. Another problem with him being a disciple is that "all twelve" of the disciples are named in the gospels (Matt 10, Luke 6), and he isn't one of them.
                      An understandable error on your part: while the Bible does refer to the twelve (the inner group) on occasion as "the disciples", there are far more than 12, as you yourself have stated (although you did call some of them "associates".)
                      Combine that with the fact that stone-cut tombs were known to have been owned by the Jewish authorities in Jerusalem and not known to be privately owned,
                      First I've heard of it - citations?
                      and it makes it unlikely that Jesus was taken by a disciple and placed in the disciple's stone-cut tomb.
                      That is possible. With only one author attesting to a matter, the Bible cannot be said to assert the matter as accurate (unless of course, independent verification by an accredited extra-Biblical source is available.)
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                        Was he a disciple?
                        I don't see how we can answer. I'm not even sure it's a clear-cut question. I'd guess he was sympathetic. But surely he wasn't one of the people who followed Jesus around, or more would have been said about him. I'd guess there were many like that. Maybe they listened to him talk. They found a lot of what he said good. But their degree of commitment would vary. At that time there wasn't a church that you'd formally join.

                        It's hard to know whether "who was also himself waiting expectantly for the kingdom of God" indicated that he followed Jesus, or was an inference decades later from the fact that he buried Jesus. It's certainly possible that he buried Jesus just as an act of piety. You're asking questions that can't be answered.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by psstein View Post
                          Probably Joseph of Arimathea, who buried Jesus dishonorably, likely in a tomb reserved for criminals.

                          John Granger Cook has an excellent book on this called Crucifixion in the Mediterranean World; he discusses Jesus' burial in an entire chapter. PM me for information.
                          Interesting, I'm going to look into that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                            Okay, here's a question for the forum. Who do you think buried Jesus? According to Acts 13:29 it was the Jewish authorities who took Jesus from the tree and laid him in a tomb. This is a plausible explanation for what happened, because the type of tomb cited in the gospels was believed to have been loaned out to Jews by the Jewish authorities - after which the families would take custody of a body and move it to their own tomb or grave. They did this because burying bodies along with doing other work was forbidden on the Sabbath.
                            Um, such loaner graves were likely for travelers. The grave wasn't they final resting place - the ossuary would have been used in cities like Jerusalem where space was scarce. While Jews may well have preferred that the bodies not remain on the crosses, it was not common practice to remove them - that required Roman approval and the Romans liked their object lessons where they were. Even if a family received permission, it would have been no major problem to remove the body after the Sabbath.

                            The gospels on the other hand claim that a disciple took possession of the body and put it in his own tomb. But critics have pointed out that the gospel writers blamed the Jewish authorities for the death of Jesus, not the Roman authorities who were the ones really to blame. Because of this early anti-Semitic belief, details that showed any good will of the Jewish authorities might have been changed by early Christian thought before the gospels were written down, making the explanation that a disciple took the body less plausible.
                            Joseph of Arimathea fits the bill perfectly - that he wasn't one of the Twelve doesn't make him any the less a disciple. Scripture indicates that Jesus had many disciples - the Twelve were selected from His disciples.

                            Your reasoning is faulty - if there was no other occasion to make mention of Joseph then there would be no reason to expect earlier mention. Unless you have a demonstrable reason that the omission of Joseph prior to the crucifixion is suspect, it simply doesn't matter. Scripture only mentions Salome once but we have no call to doubt that she is Herodias' daughter.

                            Another possibility of course is that the Romans took the body down and buried it in a mass grave somewhere.
                            No, this one really isn't a possibility. Romans used crucifixion as an object lesson - removing a corpse from a cross without Roman approval was itself a crime. It's absurd to think that the Romans would have bothered to bury the body - let alone that they would bury enough to qualify as a mass grave anywhere.


                            Or that the family took it and laid it to rest.
                            Equally silly - they had the power to safely remove a corpse from a cross (crime under Roman law - a very big one) but not the power to prevent the Crucifixion. And how did they get the political clout to even get an audience with Pilate, let alone get permission to remove the body?

                            A member of the Sanhedrin, however...
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              The 4 gospel accounts agree as who placed Jesus' body in the tomb.
                              I wasn't commenting on whether the sources are in agreement. I was commenting on their reliability.

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