Teshuvah vs. Kapparah

[mitzi]

The Double Purpose of Yom Kippur
We must be cleansed from the polluting effects of sin.
By Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik

"And in the Torah it is written: "Know therefore that the Lord thy God is the faithful God Who keeps covenant and shows mercy to those that love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations, and repays those that hate Him ... to destroy them" (Deuteronomy 7:9). Jewish creed is based on the belief in reward and punishment and on the conviction that sin is by no means a transitory phenomenon that passes by, leaving no trace and incurring no liability. Sin and punishment are always linked together. If you will, the very definition of sin is that it is an act that entails paying a penalty. If punishment exists, it is because sin does too.

Kapparah means: forgiveness or withdrawal of claim. This is a legal concept, borrowed from the laws of property. Just as one may release his fellow man of a debt owed to him, so may God absolve one of penalty to which he is liable due to sin. Kapparah removes the need for punishment."



this is a good read

[mitzi]

oops forgot! the rest: teshuvah (repentance) and kapparah (acquittal)

By means of teshuvah (repentance) and kapparah (acquittal) man puts a protective covering between himself and the punishment for his sin. According to Rashi, the words "kapparah" (acquittal) and "kofer" (indemnity payment) are derived from the same Hebrew root ["kfr”] and have a common signification. Punishment is not a self‑negating phenomenon--an indemnity must be offered and paid in order to withdraw the liability claim. That indemnity payment is made through teshuvah (repentance) itself. Kapparah (acquittal) is the result of the payment of this "ransom" which releases and redeems man from punishment. All this concerns the liability incurred by the sinner. The moment acquittal is granted and punishment wiped from the books, man's liability is terminated.

However, sin also has a polluting quality. The Jewish view recognizes a state of "impurity of sin" (tum’at ha‑het). The entire Bible abounds in references to this idea of self‑pollution, contamination, rolling about in the mire of sin. This impurity makes its mark on the sinner's personality. Sin, as it were, removes the divine halo from man's head, impairing his spiritual integrity. In addition to the frequent appearance of this idea in Scriptures and in the homiletical teachings of the Aggadah, we also find many concrete references to the "impurity of sin" in the halakha (Jewish Law). An Israelite who has transgressed suffers a reversal in his legal status. Should a man commit a prohibited act and be charged with stripes or capital punishment, not only does he have to pay the penalty for his sins, he is also discredited as a witness in a court of Jewish Law. This does not constitute further punishment but is rather indicative of a change in his personal status. As a result of sin, man is not the same person he was before.

[Tanakh Keeper]

Mitzi

Why did you setup this article as a dichotomy "Teshuvah VERSUS Kapparah"? This is not the intent of the author. The overview of his article is actually

In this article, the author presents a traditionalist view of sin and punishment, presenting the view that all sin is followed by punishment, whether in this world or the world to come.

The author's conclusion:

Indeed, true teshuvah (repentance) not only achieves kapparah (acquittal), it should also bring about taharah from tum’ah (spiritual pollution), liberating man from his hard‑hearted ignorance and insensitivity. Such teshuvah restores man's spiritual viability and rehabilitates him to his original state.

And sometimes ... it makes man rise to heights he never dreamt he could reach.

[mitzi]

Mitzi

Why did you setup this article as a dichotomy "Teshuvah VERSUS Kapparah"? This is not the intent of the author. The overview of his article is actually

The author's conclusion:

What are the difference between the two and also how they (also) correlate with one another. In the article, Tanakh - the distinction is made, "In order to understand the concepts of kapparah (acquittal) and taharah (purification), one must find out what is meant by liability and defilement which are brought about by sin."

Yom Kippur--the Day of Atonement--has a double function. The first is kapparah-- acquittal from sin or atonement: "For the virtue of this very day shall acquit you of sin" (Lev. 16:30). This was expressed in the prayer recited by the High Priest in the Holy Temple: "Please grant acquittal for sins."

In order to make an atonement for a sin - someone must be aware of the sin they committed or one must repair a sin that is very visible but the person involved isn't confronting it (like the story of David - 2 Samuel 12 - Nathan Confronts David, also another Genesis 3:8 "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?” ) in order to bring about forgiveness. With David, it was so apparent - after Nathan made him realize (not by sight - and on his own accord) his sin - once David had grasped a hold of the sin - did he realize within himself how destructive the sin became. "13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD. Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the LORD, the son born to you will die.”


It is in the confrontation - whether the sin was committed between persons or God. The punishment of sin - acts at that moment/minute/second of the transgression (or the offense) and in that second (whether we realize it or not) we have departed from God - in a spiritual way. If you read all the great prophets - especially Nehemiah and Baruch, include Ester's statement that says "Do not yield your sceptre, Lord, to what does not exist"... God (as merciful and compassionate - that He is) also will wipe out our offense and cleanse us from the sin, as to purify us - before Him in prayer, we can not come to Him with that sin and stand before Him. God will wash and clean out the soul from the sin....1st the washing and then cleansing. There are differences and similarities to both - so that is why I listed this way and this is how it was listed on other websites before I posted the article.

When Sennacherib threatened Judah in 701, King Hezekiah sent a messenger to him, saying: ‘I have “sinned”’ (II Kings 18:14). The ‘sin’ of Hezekiah consisted in a violation of his . . . duties. A ‘sinful’ act, i.e., one of dereliction of duty, is thus a matter between two parties. The one who does not fulfill his obligations in relation to the other is a sinner with regard to the latter; he ‘sins against him,’ i.e., ‘he fails him,’ and so gives the other a claim upon him. According to I Samuel 2:25, failure in carrying out one’s duty can concern the relations between men or between God and man: ‘If a man offends against (h’) a man, God will mediate, but if a man offends against (h’) God, who shall act as mediator?’ This passage indicates that the ‘sin’ against God was conceived as an ‘offense,’ as a failure to fulfill one’s obligation toward God. Since the root h’ denotes an action, that failure is neither an abstraction nor a permanent disqualification but a concrete act with its consequences. This act is defined as a ‘failure,’ an ‘offense,’ when it is contrary to a norm regulating the relations between God and man. . . . The concept of h’ extends not only to juridical, moral, and social matters, but also to cultic obligations, and even to involuntary infringements of ritual prescriptions (Lev. 4-5) or of occasional divine premonitions (Num. 22:34).

I always watch what I post - Tanakh, you do know this, right? - because I know that I am going to get called on the floor about it. I don't have the time to make a mistake like this one - and it wasn't a mistake.


For example: This is showing a distinction between Teshuva and Kapparah - not that these two words show opposition to one another:

Teshuva vs. Kappara: Repentance and Atonement In Jewish Intellectual History/ Why Do We Read Jonah On Yom Kippur?

Mitzi

[Tanakh Keeper]

For example: This is showing a distinction between Teshuva and Kapparah - not that these two words show opposition to one another:

The two words (repentance and acquittal) are different, so they are obviously distinct. I thought your presentation was curious, like you were trying to show that they are in opposition to each other. Obviously sin is a type of turning away from G-d and His precepts. However, sin doesn’t prevent us from accessing G-d. The Tanakh is full of references of Israel sinning, but through contrition and sincere repentance coming back to G-d. Such as:

1Kings 8:46. If they sin against You, for (there is) no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near. 47. And they shall bethink themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying, 'We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness.' 48. And they shall return to You with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name. 49. And you shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause. 50. And forgive Your people what they have sinned against You, and all their transgressions that they have transgressed against You, and give mercy before their captors, that they may have mercy on them. 51. For they are Your people, and Your inheritance, whom You have taken out of Egypt, from within the smelting furnace of iron. 52. That Your eyes may be open to the supplication of Your servant, and to the supplication of your people Israel, to hearken to them whenever they call to You.

Sin is not a vast gulf that separates us from G-d. Sin is a human condition that G-d creates all humans with.

[mitzi]

The two words (repentance and acquittal) are different, so they are obviously distinct. I thought your presentation was curious, like you were trying to show that they are in opposition to each other. Obviously sin is a type of turning away from G-d and His precepts. However, sin doesn’t prevent us from accessing G-d. The Tanakh is full of references of Israel sinning, but through contrition and sincere repentance coming back to G-d. Such as:

1Kings 8:46. If they sin against You, for (there is) no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near. 47. And they shall bethink themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying, 'We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness.' 48. And they shall return to You with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name. 49. And you shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause. 50. And forgive Your people what they have sinned against You, and all their transgressions that they have transgressed against You, and give mercy before their captors, that they may have mercy on them. 51. For they are Your people, and Your inheritance, whom You have taken out of Egypt, from within the smelting furnace of iron. 52. That Your eyes may be open to the supplication of Your servant, and to the supplication of your people Israel, to hearken to them whenever they call to You.

Sin is not a vast gulf that separates us from G-d. Sin is a human condition that G-d creates all humans with.

Understood. Tanakh - Nehemiah, makes a plea to God on the behalf of Israelites, and for those who keep or those who can keep God's commandments. Righteousness is what God knows to be righteous - God hears the cries of the brokenhearted, sincere at heart, the ones' who have faith and trust (emunah and bitachon—belief in G-d vs. trust in G-d. ) - the one who come to him with realization that He is God - a mediator (liken to Moses) will plea on the behalf of the offender. Sometimes a person or people are so blinded by their sins - that it makes them incapable to see or to hear (Isaiah 42:18 - ""Hear, you deaf; look, you blind, and see!)

What a righteous person can "do" is pray - asking God to help that person or people. (as to be wept over) - Elijah prays that God might restore her son so that the veracity and trustworthiness of God's word might be demonstrated. 1 Kings 17:22 relates how God "heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived." This is the first instance of raising the dead recorded in Scripture. This non-Israelite widow was granted the best covenant blessing in the person of her son, the only hope for a widow in ancient society. The widow cried, "...the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth." She made a confession that the Israelites had failed to make.

In the same way Nehemiah prays - "And I said, "I beseech You, O Lord God of heaven, the great and awesome God, Who keeps the Covenant and loving-kindness to those who love Him and to those who keep His commandments.

6. Let Your ear now be attentive and Your eyes open to listen to the prayer of Your servant, which I pray before You today, day and night, concerning the Children of Israel, Your servants, and I confess the sins of the Children of Israel, which we sinned against You; and I and my father's house have sinned."

In the book of Tobit, he instructs his son, Tobias, the ways or the path in which to conduct his life: 15 Do to no one what you yourself dislike. (remember Hillel on this quote) and also 19 At all times bless the Lord God, and ask him to make all your paths straight and to grant success to all your endeavors and plans. (remember 2 Maccabees 1:1) also, in the book of Tobit, which I don't think the Tanakh supports this book, however - Tobit "gives" us an inkling of the Angel Raphael - "who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord" - the word has been "presented" - to God, as with Moses who presents a plea or in the gesture ""You have committed a great sin. But now I will go up to the LORD; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin."


"Tobit 3:1 Grief-stricken in spirit, I groaned and wept aloud. Then with sobs I began to pray:2 "You are righteous, O Lord, and all your deeds are just; All your ways are mercy and truth; you are the judge of the world. (citing: 1 Samuel 1:7-8)

These prayers from the prophets are very strong because their plea to God, comes from the faith deep inside: "Moses was beseeching the Jewish people to reciprocate in kind, by rededicating themselves to G‑d for all times as His chosen people—even when it becomes increasingly difficult to do so. Even in circumstances when it is not rationally beneficial..."

Blessing
Mitzi

reference: Unbreakable Faith

[mitzi]

The two words (repentance and acquittal) are different, so they are obviously distinct. I thought your presentation was curious, like you were trying to show that they are in opposition to each other. Obviously sin is a type of turning away from G-d and His precepts. However, sin doesn’t prevent us from accessing G-d. The Tanakh is full of references of Israel sinning, but through contrition and sincere repentance coming back to G-d. Such as:

1Kings 8:46. If they sin against You, for (there is) no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near. 47. And they shall bethink themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying, 'We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness.' 48. And they shall return to You with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name. 49. And you shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause. 50. And forgive Your people what they have sinned against You, and all their transgressions that they have transgressed against You, and give mercy before their captors, that they may have mercy on them. 51. For they are Your people, and Your inheritance, whom You have taken out of Egypt, from within the smelting furnace of iron. 52. That Your eyes may be open to the supplication of Your servant, and to the supplication of your people Israel, to hearken to them whenever they call to You.

Sin is not a vast gulf that separates us from G-d. Sin is a human condition that G-d creates all humans with.

Sin is not a vast gulf that separates us from G-d. Sin is a human condition that G-d creates all humans with.

God didn't create sin - sin is the direct affect of what happens when we don't do or don't listen as in the Hebrew word “chet” (“misdeed”) - . Sin is actually like an open wound that festers and gets worst if you don't clean it out - and that is Teshuvah (Return, or Repentance) which is a generous gift from G-d! - Amen, Amen!

adding one more reference:

Matan Torah
According to Rashi
Prepared by Rabbi G. Rubin


This gives very good information on your stated verse - in Exodus 32.

[Vivian]

Hi Mitzi -

I find it more resonating with scripture to say that we are not to blame for our condition, but we are responsible. Sin, in Hebrew is chatta 'ath , or a miss, a misstep, and darkness or choshek, is the cause of our misstepping. We can't see what we are doing here in the choshek, the underground prison. And God claims that he created the darkness or this place where we cannot see and places us into it. So he created the conditions that led to our blindness, causing us to misstep.

I think the question is why? Obviously this is what he wanted, where he wanted us to be. So again we are not to blame for our condition. However we are responsible to find the Light, to stand in the Light so that we can see and not continue to misstep.

So teshuvah or repentance is returning, coming to the Light so that we can see and not misstep - our responsibility, and kapparah or atonement is covering the debt caused from our misstep. We find this concept of debt from our misstepping in many other religious traditions. It is the law of creation - that all must reap what they sow. There is purpose for this in the unfolding of creation, as with all aspects of the law, but there comes a point in our journey that the law places us in bondage - we are forever having to reap what we sow that we cannot seek and find God (in other words we are so busy with things that arise in our lives that we must deal with, suffer with, that we dont have time for God) and so atonement frees us to find the Light in the darkness so that we do not sin. Kapparah is a gift, nothing earned.

Shalom!

Viv

[mitzi]

Hi Mitzi -

I find it more resonating with scripture to say that we are not to blame for our condition, but we are responsible. Sin, in Hebrew is chatta 'ath , or a miss, a misstep, and darkness or choshek, is the cause of our misstepping. We can't see what we are doing here in the choshek, the underground prison. And God claims that he created the darkness or this place where we cannot see and places us into it. So he created the conditions that led to our blindness, causing us to misstep.

I think the question is why? Obviously this is what he wanted, where he wanted us to be. So again we are not to blame for our condition. However we are responsible to find the Light, to stand in the Light so that we can see and not continue to misstep.

So teshuvah or repentance is returning, coming to the Light so that we can see and not misstep - our responsibility, and kapparah or atonement is covering the debt caused from our misstep. We find this concept of debt from our misstepping in many other religious traditions. It is the law of creation - that all must reap what they sow. There is purpose for this in the unfolding of creation, as with all aspects of the law, but there comes a point in our journey that the law places us in bondage - we are forever having to reap what we sow that we cannot seek and find God (in other words we are so busy with things that arise in our lives that we must deal with, suffer with, that we dont have time for God) and so atonement frees us to find the Light in the darkness so that we do not sin. Kapparah is a gift, nothing earned.

Shalom!

Viv

If this was correct then Genesis and the beginnings would be incorrect. When reading the first phrase, the scripture states - Book of Genesis (Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]) – beginnings:

In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets.

1:2 The earth was without form and empty, with darkness on the face of the depths, but God's spirit moved on the water's surface.
Veha'arets hayetah tohu vavohu vechoshech al-peney tehom veruach Elohim merachefet al-peney hamayim.

1:3 God said, 'There shall be light,' and light came into existence.
Vayomer Elohim yehi-or vayehi-or.

1:4 God saw that the light was good, and God divided between the light and the darkness.
Vayar Elohim et-ha'or ki-tov vayavdel Elohim beyn ha'or uveyn hachoshech.

Verse 1:4 – tells us that God divided between (edit) the light and the darkness. Backing up to 1:3 God said, 'There shall be light,' and light came into existence. (Isaiah 45 “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.” And Psalm 104:20 “they die and return to the dust. 30 When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.”)

If we were to go farther with the Song of Chanah – it is the story of creation, those who study the Torah in depth in general, and the Creation of the world in particular, try to understand the meaning of the description ‘tohu u’bohu”. In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction. In the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) in the weekly portion, Parshat Haazinu (32,10) it says: Yimtzaeihu b’eretz midbar uvetohu yelel yeshimon..”, “He found him in a desert land, and in the waste a howling wilderness,” from which we learn that the word תוהו “tohu” means - wasteland, desert. Also in ancient Semitic texts, like Ugaritic, the word “Tohu” means -desert. In Arabic, the word means a dry waterless place. And in Arabic the word בוהו “bohu” means - empty, without anything. Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu)

So what is sin – a waterless, empty place – a desert. Sin is without form and void – it is what we consider to be in the state of emptiness a lifeless place – a desert. Incidentally, in fine literary Hebrew, the expression תוהו ובוהו “tohu ubohu” can be used to describe a big disorder, a real mess. So then, what does God “do” with this void or emptiness, like Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] (Genesis 1:2) He creates – He “hovers” over us with His spirit (see Acts 2:3 , Barnes notes) – and creates in us a “new” spirit, correct? – So really in turn, like scripture states, “Psalm 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” In each of us God has divided the darkness and the light – we can choose between.

We read (again) all this in Daniel “In the Book of Daniel it is written: והמשכילים יזהרו כזוהר הרקיע Vehamaskilim yezaharu kezohar harakia..,” (“And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament”).” ( And in Song of Chanah - 6“The Lord brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. 7 The Lord sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts. 8 He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; upon them he has set the world. 9 He will guard the feet of his saints, but the wicked will be silenced in darkness.

[mitzi]

Hi Mitzi -

I find it more resonating with scripture to say that we are not to blame for our condition, but we are responsible. Sin, in Hebrew is chatta 'ath , or a miss, a misstep, and darkness or choshek, is the cause of our misstepping. We can't see what we are doing here in the choshek, the underground prison. And God claims that he created the darkness or this place where we cannot see and places us into it. So he created the conditions that led to our blindness, causing us to misstep.

I think the question is why? Obviously this is what he wanted, where he wanted us to be. So again we are not to blame for our condition. However we are responsible to find the Light, to stand in the Light so that we can see and not continue to misstep.

So teshuvah or repentance is returning, coming to the Light so that we can see and not misstep - our responsibility, and kapparah or atonement is covering the debt caused from our misstep. We find this concept of debt from our misstepping in many other religious traditions. It is the law of creation - that all must reap what they sow. There is purpose for this in the unfolding of creation, as with all aspects of the law, but there comes a point in our journey that the law places us in bondage - we are forever having to reap what we sow that we cannot seek and find God (in other words we are so busy with things that arise in our lives that we must deal with, suffer with, that we dont have time for God) and so atonement frees us to find the Light in the darkness so that we do not sin. Kapparah is a gift, nothing earned.

Shalom!

Viv

6 In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit.
7Has [the Lord] struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? 8 By warfare and exile you contend with her—with his fierce blast he drives her out,as on a day the east wind blows. 9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin: then he makes all the altar stones to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces, no Asherah polesb or incense altars will be left standing. 10 The fortified city stands desolate, an abandoned settlement, forsaken like the desert; there the calves graze, there they lie down; they strip its branches bare.
11When its twigs are dry, they are broken off and women come and make fires with them. For this is a people without understanding; so their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor.

12 In that day the Lord will thresh from the flowing Euphratesc to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one. 13And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. Isaiah 27

[mitzi]

Hi Mitzi -

I find it more resonating with scripture to say that we are not to blame for our condition, but we are responsible. Sin, in Hebrew is chatta 'ath , or a miss, a misstep, and darkness or choshek, is the cause of our misstepping. We can't see what we are doing here in the choshek, the underground prison. And God claims that he created the darkness or this place where we cannot see and places us into it. So he created the conditions that led to our blindness, causing us to misstep.

I think the question is why? Obviously this is what he wanted, where he wanted us to be. So again we are not to blame for our condition. However we are responsible to find the Light, to stand in the Light so that we can see and not continue to misstep.

So teshuvah or repentance is returning, coming to the Light so that we can see and not misstep - our responsibility, and kapparah or atonement is covering the debt caused from our misstep. We find this concept of debt from our misstepping in many other religious traditions. It is the law of creation - that all must reap what they sow. There is purpose for this in the unfolding of creation, as with all aspects of the law, but there comes a point in our journey that the law places us in bondage - we are forever having to reap what we sow that we cannot seek and find God (in other words we are so busy with things that arise in our lives that we must deal with, suffer with, that we dont have time for God) and so atonement frees us to find the Light in the darkness so that we do not sin. Kapparah is a gift, nothing earned.

Shalom!

Viv

I want to emphasize this part a little more for you:

"Those who study the Torah in depth in general, and the Creation of the world in particular, try to understand the meaning of the description ‘tohu u’bohu”. In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction. In the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) in the weekly portion, Parshat Haazinu (32,10) it says: Yimtzaeihu b’eretz midbar uvetohu yelel yeshimon..”, “He found him in a desert land, and in the waste a howling wilderness,” from which we learn that the word תוהו “tohu” means - wasteland, desert. Also in ancient Semitic texts, like Ugaritic, the word “Tohu” means -desert. In Arabic, the word means a dry waterless place. And in Arabic the word בוהו “bohu” means - empty, without anything. Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu)

So what is sin – a waterless, empty place – a desert. Sin is without form and void – it is what we consider to be in the state of emptiness, a lifeless place – a desert. Incidentally, in fine literary Hebrew, the expression תוהו ובוהו “tohu ubohu” can be used to describe a big disorder, a real mess. So then, what does God “do” with this void or emptiness, like Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] (Genesis 1:2) He creates – He “hovers” over us with His spirit – and creates in us a “new” spirit, correct? – So really in turn, like scripture states, “Psalm 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” In each of us God has divided the darkness and the light – we can choose between.

If we were to go farther with the Song of Chanah – it is the story of creation. Because in the song - "The Lord brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." So with creation in the beginning as the earth was without "form and empty", with darkness on the face of the depths (God raises even "us" up from the destruction and chaos), and God's Spirit moved on the water's surface (blessings/atonement (Like birds hovering overhead, HaShem Almighty will shield Jerusalem; he will shield ...... Kapparah (Covering / Atonement) in Hebrew the word Kapparah or covering and the idea of atonement are more-or-less synonymous. ) - by Hovering over the waters, God creates the world by the "ten utterances" (see Avot Ch.5). through which He commands his world to come into being, and each order is directly followed by it's execution. - adding on God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness )."

(Note: on the face of the deep:on the face of the waters which were on the earth. and the spirit of God was hovering:The Throne of Glory was suspended in the air and hovered over the face of the water with the breath of the mouth of the Holy One,blessed be He and with His word,like a dove,which hovers over the nest,a coveter in Old French,to cover,hover over.)

(God created order from day one - the ten utterances,"By the word of God the heavens were created and by the spirit of his mouth all its hosts ... He spoke and they came into being, he issued a command and they stood." )

(form and empty - In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction." however, God raised up creation by His Spirit from the destruction and created life...So with mankind, he will raise him up on the last days - in the resurrection and in a spiritual sense, God raises man up from (as the Chanah song describes) his sin - in atonement)

4 God saw that the light was good, and God divided between the light and the darkness.
Vayar Elohim et-ha'or ki-tov vayavdel Elohim beyn ha'or uveyn hachoshech.


"To begin with, not only is G-d's light infinite, but it is by definition, perfectly good. Likewise, anything made from His Light, which is everything that exists, must also be perfectly good. And thus, within this short and simple statement lies the biggest paradox known to man: how can evil exist in a perfectly good world? To begin with, you have to know that what we call "evil" cannot have any intrinsic existence of its own, otherwise it would have to exist forever, and that, we are taught, is not the case. For, as the Talmud states, in Yemos HaMoshiach, the yetzer hara will cease to exist (Succah 52a), signaling the end of all of evil temptation. Likewise, as the Leshem points out, at the same time the Malach HaMaves (Angel of Death) will also cease to exist (Sha'arei Leshem, p. 489), another way of expressing the same idea.

In Sha'ar HaGilgulim, Rabbi Chaim Vital wrote the following: We have already mentioned that as a result of the sin of Kayin and Hevel, the souls became mixed together in the K'lipos (i.e., spiritual impurity) and that this is called, "the mixture of good and evil." From that time onward, the souls have been undergoing a process of "separation" from within the K'lipos, just as silver is smelted from waste . . .

In other words, all of history is about separation, the separation of good from evil, and the rejection of the latter. When Adam HaRishon ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he caused an intermingling of good and evil that up until that time had been separate from each other. Tikun is about separating them again, and once that process is complete, the world will be perfected and the mandate for Creation will be fulfilled." Parshios Netzavim & Vayeilech

Genesis (Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]) - beginnings or perhaps the renewal of ... we see this in revelations chapter 21.

[Vivian]

Wow Mitzi!

It is obvious that you enjoy studying scripture! If I might respond to a few points...

If this was correct then Genesis and the beginnings would be incorrect. When reading the first phrase, the scripture states - Book of Genesis (Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]) – beginnings:

In the beginning God created heaven and earth.
Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets.

So you believe that this spiritual Light spoken of in Genesis was Created? That it did not exist prior to this moment in the unfolding of Creation?

I find that curious, for I have not found anyone, Jewish or Christian, or Messianic, who thinks this way! Not that no one does, I just never encountered them before.

This is how I have come to understand this telling in Genesis. God Most High had a thought or a desire to create, and so created a void within himself, and into this void he injected his Light, and within the void Light took form. We see this same pattern throughout creation, even in the making of our own physical bodies.

More on this later...

1:2 The earth was without form and empty, with darkness on the face of the depths, but God's spirit moved on the water's surface.
Veha'arets hayetah tohu vavohu vechoshech al-peney tehom veruach Elohim merachefet al-peney hamayim.

1:3 God said, 'There shall be light,' and light came into existence.
Vayomer Elohim yehi-or vayehi-or.

1:4 God saw that the light was good, and God divided between the light and the darkness.
Vayar Elohim et-ha'or ki-tov vayavdel Elohim beyn ha'or uveyn hachoshech.

Verse 1:4 – tells us that God divided between (edit) the light and the darkness. Backing up to 1:3 God said, 'There shall be light,' and light came into existence. (Isaiah 45 “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.” And Psalm 104:20 “they die and return to the dust. 30 When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth.”)

When I read this verse in Isaiah I hear When I gave Light form, I caused darkness to come into existence.

The Hebrew word translated as form is likened to a potter who forms objects out of clay. The clay exists before the forming. And note that this sentence is not speaking of a past event but an ongoing event. Eg the Lord does not say I formed the Light, but I form the Light, meaning the forming of Light and creating of darkness is an ongoing event within creation.

If we were to go farther with the Song of Chanah – it is the story of creation, those who study the Torah in depth in general, and the Creation of the world in particular, try to understand the meaning of the description ‘tohu u’bohu”. In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction. In the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) in the weekly portion, Parshat Haazinu (32,10) it says: Yimtzaeihu b’eretz midbar uvetohu yelel yeshimon..”, “He found him in a desert land, and in the waste a howling wilderness,” from which we learn that the word תוהו “tohu” means - wasteland, desert. Also in ancient Semitic texts, like Ugaritic, the word “Tohu” means -desert. In Arabic, the word means a dry waterless place. And in Arabic the word בוהו “bohu” means - empty, without anything. Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu)

Yes, I do not disagree. My tradition plays on the desolation, ruin, destruction aspect of creation, believing that this world came from the destruction of other worlds. What was left after other worlds were destroyed was ruin and desolation, and into this Elohim injected already existed Light - taking formless Light and giving it form, to spur another cycle of creation.

So what is sin – a waterless, empty place – a desert. Sin is without form and void – it is what we consider to be in the state of emptiness a lifeless place – a desert. Incidentally, in fine literary Hebrew, the expression תוהו ובוהו “tohu ubohu” can be used to describe a big disorder, a real mess. So then, what does God “do” with this void or emptiness, like Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] (Genesis 1:2) He creates – He “hovers” over us with His spirit (see Acts 2:3 , Barnes notes) – and creates in us a “new” spirit, correct? – So really in turn, like scripture states, “Psalm 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.”

I do not disagree only offer as clarification that sin is what we do in a waterless, empty, desolate, dark, place.

In each of us God has divided the darkness and the light – we can choose between.

I do not disagree, as part of this world system, the condition of the world system also exists within us. Also creation follows the same pattern whether it is of a world system or an individual soul. Yes, we are all these things. And such is for our discovery within, just as Apostle Paul describes in Romans 7.

We read (again) all this in Daniel “In the Book of Daniel it is written: והמשכילים יזהרו כזוהר הרקיע Vehamaskilim yezaharu kezohar harakia..,” (“And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament”).” ( And in Song of Chanah - 6“The Lord brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. 7 The Lord sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts. 8 He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; upon them he has set the world. 9 He will guard the feet of his saints, but the wicked will be silenced in darkness.

Again, the only point we seem to disagree upon is what form means - whether or not Light existed prior to creation.

Peace be within you.

Viv

[Vivian]

6 In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit.
7Has [the Lord] struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? 8 By warfare and exile you contend with her—with his fierce blast he drives her out,as on a day the east wind blows. 9 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for,and this will be the full fruitage of the removal of his sin: then he makes all the altar stones to be like chalk stones crushed to pieces, no Asherah polesb or incense altars will be left standing. 10 The fortified city stands desolate, an abandoned settlement, forsaken like the desert; there the calves graze, there they lie down; they strip its branches bare.
11When its twigs are dry, they are broken off and women come and make fires with them. For this is a people without understanding; so their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor.

12 In that day the Lord will thresh from the flowing Euphratesc to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one. 13And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. Isaiah 27

I am not sure what point you are making with this scripture?

[Vivian]

I want to emphasize this part a little more for you:

"Those who study the Torah in depth in general, and the Creation of the world in particular, try to understand the meaning of the description ‘tohu u’bohu”. In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction. In the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) in the weekly portion, Parshat Haazinu (32,10) it says: Yimtzaeihu b’eretz midbar uvetohu yelel yeshimon..”, “He found him in a desert land, and in the waste a howling wilderness,” from which we learn that the word תוהו “tohu” means - wasteland, desert. Also in ancient Semitic texts, like Ugaritic, the word “Tohu” means -desert. In Arabic, the word means a dry waterless place. And in Arabic the word בוהו “bohu” means - empty, without anything. Consequently, we understand that the words “tohu ubohu” describe a waterless, empty place. (Hebrew Bible - Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] and reference to: Tohu wa-bohu)

So what is sin – a waterless, empty place – a desert. Sin is without form and void – it is what we consider to be in the state of emptiness, a lifeless place – a desert. Incidentally, in fine literary Hebrew, the expression תוהו ובוהו “tohu ubohu” can be used to describe a big disorder, a real mess.

So then, what does God “do” with this void or emptiness, like Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color] (Genesis 1:2) He creates – He “hovers” over us with His spirit – and creates in us a “new” spirit, correct? – So really in turn, like scripture states, “Psalm 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.” In each of us God has divided the darkness and the light – we can choose between.

Yes, I agree. Perhaps you have not understood what I have said in thinking that we do not agree? Just as Apostle Paul describes we must each find the Light and darkness within ourselves and choose. Teshuvah, repentance, is choosing the Light or returning to the Light. Repentance is our part in all this. But we cannot repent until we are able to see both within us. This occurs when we come to the Light of Christ, hence we remain condemned until our belief carries us into the Light of Christ where we are able to see within ourselves, the Light and the darkness, and repent, choosing the former.

If we were to go farther with the Song of Chanah – it is the story of creation. Because in the song - "The Lord brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up." So with creation in the beginning as the earth was without "form and empty", with darkness on the face of the depths (God raises even "us" up from the destruction and chaos), and God's Spirit moved on the water's surface (blessings/atonement (Like birds hovering overhead, HaShem Almighty will shield Jerusalem; he will shield ...... Kapparah (Covering / Atonement) in Hebrew the word Kapparah or covering and the idea of atonement are more-or-less synonymous. ) - by Hovering over the waters, God creates the world by the "ten utterances" (see Avot Ch.5). through which He commands his world to come into being, and each order is directly followed by it's execution. - adding on God saw that the light was good, and God separated the light from the darkness )."

You are speaking of mysteries, here, mitzi! Indeed yes. As shared, all creation comes into existence following the same pattern. Our physical world and our spiritual self will come into existence following the same pattern, and yes, the 10 utterances of creation speak of this process. The 10 Utterances of Creation tie into the 10 Commandments and also the Beatitudes, there being 10 if you consider what Jesus taught about being persecuted as part of the whole.

This is why Yeshua taught that we must go through two births - one in physicality and one spiritually while in physicality. Being born of Spirit follows the same patterned laid out in Genesis 1, which parallels the pattern laid out with the 10 Commandments and the Beatitudes.

(Note: on the face of the deep:on the face of the waters which were on the earth. and the spirit of God was hovering:The Throne of Glory was suspended in the air and hovered over the face of the water with the breath of the mouth of the Holy One,blessed be He and with His word,like a dove,which hovers over the nest,a coveter in Old French,to cover,hover over.)

Indeed, God's Holy Spirit, Holy Shekinah, hovers over us, in the state of chaos and voice, stilling the waters, dividing Light from darkness, so that we can choose, and then Spirit following the pattern of the days of creation within us, so that the Spirit might be born within us.

(God created order from day one - the ten utterances,"By the word of God the heavens were created and by the spirit of his mouth all its hosts ... He spoke and they came into being, he issued a command and they stood." )

(form and empty - In English this means: “without form and void”, but in Hebrew these unique words have a meaning of desolation, ruin and destruction." however, God raised up creation by His Spirit from the destruction and created life...So with mankind, he will raise him up on the last days - in the resurrection and in a spiritual sense, God raises man up from (as the Chanah song describes) his sin - in atonement)

4 God saw that the light was good, and God divided between the light and the darkness.
Vayar Elohim et-ha'or ki-tov vayavdel Elohim beyn ha'or uveyn hachoshech.


"To begin with, not only is G-d's light infinite, but it is by definition, perfectly good. Likewise, anything made from His Light, which is everything that exists, must also be perfectly good.

So everything made from His Light is good? Indeed.

I gave form to Light. Light is infinite, eternal, without beginning nor end. The only thing with beginning or end is the form that God gives Light. The Light itself is eternal, ever existing, thus not created.

And thus, within this short and simple statement lies the biggest paradox known to man: how can evil exist in a perfectly good world? To begin with, you have to know that what we call "evil" cannot have any intrinsic existence of its own, otherwise it would have to exist forever, and that, we are taught, is not the case. For, as the Talmud states, in Yemos HaMoshiach, the yetzer hara will cease to exist (Succah 52a), signaling the end of all of evil temptation. Likewise, as the Leshem points out, at the same time the Malach HaMaves (Angel of Death) will also cease to exist (Sha'arei Leshem, p. 489), another way of expressing the same idea.

Exactly!

Evil or the darkness that results in evil, has no intrinsic existence, no root. It is the result of Light being given form, and when we choose the Light, that which has always existed, sin or evil, and the darkness causing it, simply disappears. We here in this dark world actually just chase shadows - the shades and shadows that result from creation, they are not real!

In Sha'ar HaGilgulim, Rabbi Chaim Vital wrote the following: We have already mentioned that as a result of the sin of Kayin and Hevel, the souls became mixed together in the K'lipos (i.e., spiritual impurity) and that this is called, "the mixture of good and evil." From that time onward, the souls have been undergoing a process of "separation" from within the K'lipos, just as silver is smelted from waste . . .

In other words, all of history is about separation, the separation of good from evil, and the rejection of the latter. When Adam HaRishon ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he caused an intermingling of good and evil that up until that time had been separate from each other. Tikun is about separating them again, and once that process is complete, the world will be perfected and the mandate for Creation will be fulfilled." Parshios Netzavim & Vayeilech

Genesis (Bere[color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color][color=red]EDITME[/color]) - beginnings or perhaps the renewal of ... we see this in revelations chapter 21.

Indeed! Repentance is returning to the Light that has always existed, and letting go of the darkness which never existed in the first place! Darkness is just a created phenomenon, from the act of making things out of Light. Just as the rabbis you quoted above are saying!

Mitzi, I agree with everything these rabbis teach. With these quotes you have actually refuted your own argument about Light being created.

Shalom!

Viv

[mitzi]

Mitzi, I agree with everything these rabbis teach. With these quotes you have actually refuted your own argument about Light being created.

Shalom!

Viv

Hi Viv;

Isaiah 45 “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.”

No, I didn't refuted my position on this part of script - however I would like to add your statement into the mix.

"It is the law of creation - that all must reap what they sow. There is purpose for this in the unfolding of creation, as with all aspects of the law, but there comes a point in our journey that the law places us in bondage - we are forever having to reap what we sow that we cannot seek and find God (in other words we are so busy with things that arise in our lives that we must deal with, suffer with, that we dont have time for God) and so atonement frees us to find the Light in the darkness so that we do not sin. Kapparah is a gift, nothing earned."