Teshuvah vs. Kapparah

[Vivian]

While Christ might have been praying for unity among members - Apostles & believers, He was asking God to "keep them" within His word.

Looking toward another commentary to point some info out to you about this prayer:

"Jesus' intercession for his disciples from within God's presence anticipates his role after his ascension (cf. 1 Jn 2:1). Because this intercession corresponds to the role of the high priest elsewhere in the New Testament (Rom 8:34; Heb 7:25-26 "25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. ") and because Jesus uses sacrificial language when he refers to sanctifying himself (17:19), this prayer has been known as the High Priestly Prayer. In the fifth century Cyril of Alexandria saw these two activities as fitting for the one who is "our great and all-holy High Priest" (In John 11.8)."LINK

Nehemiah interceded for the people - like Moses did, or atoned.

Yes, atonement is not exclusive to the person Jesus, but was and is an act still performed today by Priests. One thing that is not so obvious is that it is not God Most High to whom the atonement is made, but to the Law that has been established since the foundation of creation (The written Torah that we know is a reflection of this Law). The Law that once was necessary becomes bondage as Creation evolves and becomes able to seek outside of himself for a God, a creator. We cannot do away with the Law, for then all of creation would cease to exist, but propitiation may be made for us, according to the Law, so that this world can continue until all is accomplished.

We must reap what we sow according to the Law.

And so Grace provides Priests, the ultimate High Priest Christ, to make propitiation to the Law - pacifying the need for us to reap what we have sown, with our error or sin.

Shalom!

Viv

[Vivian]

Hi Viv;

Not an awful lot of information was given out for the month of Elul - so I don't know how it would be fueling any discussion. There could however, and if you search more on the Lekhah Dodi - and the Shabbat, it might give you a connection to John 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world." Knowing that the “Ani L’Dodi V’Dodi Li” has a lot to do with Teshuvah - meaning that man must search out God, or "Seek God out” when he is readily found" (Isaiah 55:6) or in the Song of Songs - I looked for the one my heart loves; I looked for him but did not find him. 2 I will get up now and go about the city, through its streets and squares; I will search for the one my heart loves.”

Teshuvah (repent)- God gives us away back by seeking Him out - it’s the fact that He opens our eyes to the sin and we must seek out His forgiveness, ask, seek and knock “Seek the Lord, and his strength: seek his face evermore” (Psalm 1-05:4). God’s Spirit awakens us to “opens the door” so of speak, to the grace and loving kindness of God and places in them a broad path for teshuvah out of love.

So if you’re familiar with the Jewish terms –Avinu Malkeinu. What does John 17 say?

So don't fuel the discussion too much, Viv. We shouldn't be able to fuel anything but to show how God's love reaches out to those who need his Love and Compassion - so they can return back to Him this coming year - it's getting close to that time.

Blessings
Mitzi

Actually sacred discourses become a means to extend God's Love and Compassion into the world, so any time the Holy Spirit sees an opening in a discussion, It will fuel it through any willing participants, loading up the written words with God's Presence, so that His Love and Compassion can reach out to all those who read the written words, and beyond.

And actually there is quite a bit about Elul to be found on the internet. The discussion that it fit into was regarding the cycles that are defined by the Jewish Calender, beginning with six months to the left and then sixth months to the right. The transition from the left to the right is not limited by the movement of the planets and stars (eg calendar) but by exactly what you shared - by the movements reflected in the Jewish Calendar. Take Elul for example.

Elul is an acronym for "I am to my beloved and my beloved is to me." The consummation of such a desire for the Bridegroom by the Bride results in unification with Christ - the wedding feast - which is what Jesus prayed for, for the entire world, Unity with God. What is represented by the month Elul thus becomes an invocation for Mercy, shifting the flow from God Most High from judgment to mercy.

And so we see that while the Law established these shifts all according to the movement of the planets and the stars, with the coming of the Messiah, with the joining of the Bridegroom with His Bride, the shift occurs by Grace. Thus the Law is merely a shadow of the things to come, of that which is Real.

Shalom!

Viv

[mitzi]

Actually sacred discourses become a means to extend God's Love and Compassion into the world, so any time the Holy Spirit sees an opening in a discussion, It will fuel it through any willing participants, loading up the written words with God's Presence, so that His Love and Compassion can reach out to all those who read the written words, and beyond.

And actually there is quite a bit about Elul to be found on the internet. The discussion that it fit into was regarding the cycles that are defined by the Jewish Calender, beginning with six months to the left and then sixth months to the right. The transition from the left to the right is not limited by the movement of the planets and stars (eg calendar) but by exactly what you shared - by the movements reflected in the Jewish Calendar. Take Elul for example.

Elul is an acronym for "I am to my beloved and my beloved is to me." The consummation of such a desire for the Bridegroom by the Bride results in unification with Christ - the wedding feast - which is what Jesus prayed for, for the entire world, Unity with God. What is represented by the month Elul thus becomes an invocation for Mercy, shifting the flow from God Most High from judgment to mercy.

And so we see that while the Law established these shifts all according to the movement of the planets and the stars, with the coming of the Messiah, with the joining of the Bridegroom with His Bride, the shift occurs by Grace. Thus the Law is merely a shadow of the things to come, of that which is Real.

Shalom!

Viv

Hi Viv;


You seem to be pretty knowledgeable so you should be able to go into the board discussion with some thoughts. I know that I really didn't give you a lot of information about the subject but you seem to know more about it then I do. Good luck with the board discussion.

Blessing
Mitzi

[mitzi]

Yes, atonement is not exclusive to the person Jesus, but was and is an act still performed today by Priests. One thing that is not so obvious is that it is not God Most High to whom the atonement is made, but to the Law that has been established since the foundation of creation (The written Torah that we know is a reflection of this Law). The Law that once was necessary becomes bondage as Creation evolves and becomes able to seek outside of himself for a God, a creator. We cannot do away with the Law, for then all of creation would cease to exist, but propitiation may be made for us, according to the Law, so that this world can continue until all is accomplished.

We must reap what we sow according to the Law.

And so Grace provides Priests, the ultimate High Priest Christ, to make propitiation to the Law - pacifying the need for us to reap what we have sown, with our error or sin.

Shalom!

Viv

Hi Viv;

I think you're post is setting out in a much different direction then I would like to head when expressing exclusiveness.

1 Wisdom has built her house; she has set up its seven pillars. (Proverbs 9:1)

All Prophets have a mutual bond with God, relationship (Book of Wisdom 7:27 "she makes them into God's friends and prophets) however, with Christ, He like Wisdom - is a reflection of the eternal light (Wisdom 7:25-27), and was present at the beginning of creation. What all prophets were given was a part of wisdom (a light - to the Knowledge). So using the word "exclusiveness" should be incorrect - as previous post never implied that thought. Each of the Prophets were given different duties/responsibilities, a seal (Exodus 23:20)

Proverbs states that Wisdom has seven attributes or either that, has seven prophets who are "set" as the pillars of the faith, but what's interesting is "who" upholds these prophets? That being the Wisdom of God (according to the book of Wisdom or even in Proverbs) Wisdom upheld the world for its good, protected the first man to be fashioned (10:1), and when the earth was flooded, it was wisdom (again) who saved it, and singled out Abraham who wisdom, preserved him "Blameless" before God...

In the New Testament, one passage states that Christ's wisdom exceeded that of Solomon. I think John 1:14 implies this; "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - I guess one could ask, "What kind of a Light was it before the sun and the moon were created?" - and we read that each part of creation heard God's voice and become established. Does this not attest to the fact that at the time of the Giving of the Torah, the earth was silent at the sound of God's voice, as in the very first day of Creation. All creation heard God's voice, I think how amazing. And when the word became flesh and dwelt among us, it was out of such "Great Love" - and creation again, await the redemption for the 2nd coming 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21thati the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

So with the Menorah - It had six branches and a stem, making seven lamps in all. The kohanim (priests) lit it once a day. Symbolically, the Menorah has a base and a shaft,
The six branches curved to the height of the central shaft so that all seven lamps at their apexes were in a straight line. We could use this as one example that each faith and/or Prophet proceeds from the central shaft "Of hammered work the lampstand is to be made. Its base, its branches, its cups, its knobs and its blossoms are to proceed out from it." And each light make a reflection to the others...

Again, good luck with the discussion. I will be off line for awhile

Blessings
Mitzi


Reading John 17, at least for me, the passage shows how much love for all believers.