Exodus 32:30 - A Commentary

[mitzi]

Who Will Pay?
Friday, March 25th, 2011 | Author: Skip Moen

On the next day Moses said to the people, “You yourselves have committed a great sin; and now I am going up to the LORD, perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” Exodus 32:30 NASB

Make atonement – God is never appeased! Appeasement is demanded by pagan deities, not by YHWH. Why? Because appeasement implies that the deity is in a state of wrath or anger and that some human action is needed to defer that anger. Appeasement suggests that human beings are able, through their own efforts, to assuage the anger of the gods. But the Hebrew view begins from an entirely different perspective. God isn’t angry at us. He is brokenhearted. God loves His creation. Our rebellion produces a broken relationship that He is anxious to restore. Of course, if all His efforts fail, the moral integrity of the creation calls for punishment, but this is not His beginning state of mind. That’s why the Hebrew verb kipper “never refers to propitiation of God. Even when a human person is the subject of the action, kipper denotes the action of a substitutionary mediator, effecting forgiveness of sin.”[1]

How is atonement made? Someone stands between the offender and the offended. Someone acts as the mediator. Someone offers payment on behalf of the offender in order to restore the relationship with the offended.

[David Hayward]

Thanks for the interesting link, mitzi.

David

[Tanakh Keeper]

Yes, it is amazing how much the un-informed can make of so little. Why did this author stop at just one verse? Why not see how G-d responded to Moses' offer?

E x o 32:30 It came to pass on the next day that Moses said to the people: "You have committed a grave sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I will obtain atonement for your sin 31. And Moses returned to the Lord and said: "Please! This people has committed a grave sin. They have made themselves a god of gold. 32. And now, if You forgive their sin But if not, erase me now from Your book, which You have written." 33. And the Lord said to Moses: "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase from My book!" 34. And now go, lead the people to [the place] of which I have spoken to you. Behold My angel will go before you. But on the day I make an accounting [of sins upon them], I will bring their sin to account against them."

Putting the verse back into context clearly shows that Moses was unable to atone for other people. Vicarious atonement is not allowed. Continiung:

D e u t 24:16 - Fathers shall not be put to death because of children, nor shall children be put to death for fathers; each person shall be put to death for his own sin.

[mitzi]

Thanks for the interesting link, mitzi.

David

You bet!....Mitzi

[mitzi]

[QUOTE]

Yes, it is amazing how much the un-informed can make of so little. Why did this author stop at just one verse? Why not see how G-d responded to Moses' offer?

Hi Tanakh Keeper;

The author has a good point about appeasement, as the word suggests that human beings are able, through their own efforts, to assuage (rest/calm) the anger of the gods. "But the Hebrew view begins from an entirely different perspective. God isn’t angry at us. He is brokenhearted." - Read Genesis 6:5,

"The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."


Then read 1 Samuel 8:6 "But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king."

These are only example of some scriptural points, Tanakh, as there is another I want to point out:

"10 Moses heard the people of every family wailing, each at the entrance to his tent. The Lord became exceedingly angry, and Moses was troubled. 11 He asked the Lord, “Why have you brought this trouble on your servant? What have I done to displease you that you put the burden of all these people on me? 12 Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth? Why do you tell me to carry them in my arms, as a nurse carries an infant, to the land you promised on oath to their forefathers?"

Moses understood the prophecy that God made to Abraham, that his descendant would be as numerous as the stars, and also the promise that He would come and release the Israelites from bondage after 400 years of slavery - as scripture tells us. The whole point was in Moses speech to the Israelites, or so to speak the bottom line - for the descendants of Abraham to know God as did their father Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God revealed himself (His word) "Now with Moses, God had shown Moses all of His glory, as scripture said, “Now show me your glory."–

Even Moses, himself, said to the Israelite - "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?" one on one relationship with there ancestors - now as a people, God was making himself visible for their children.

So the author in this article is pointing toward that "fact!" - what happens, as the author tells us, "Atonement is the payment of the penalty. But what happens when the offended party is God Himself? What happens when my sin breaks relationship with Him? How will I atone for that? I am the offender. I can’t come to the offended one, YHWH, on my own because I am the one who broke the relationship. I need a mediator."

So what is the greatest commandment -

Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

Barukh sheim k'vod malkhuto l'olam va'ed.
Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.

V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha.
And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

V'hayu had'varim ha'eileh asher anokhi m'tzav'kha hayom al l'vavekha.
And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart.

Ani Adonai Eloheikhem
asher hotzei'ti et'khem mei'eretz Mitz'rayim lih'yot lakhhem leilohim
Ani Adonai Eloheikhem
I am the Lord, your God
who lead you from the land of Egypt to be a God to you.
I am the Lord, your God.

So what was the "greatest" offense? - to worship another god. The Golden Calf? What is idolatry? Anything that takes us away from that relationship with God. What offended God in the Garden of Eden? What offended God with Cain and Abel? What offended at the tower of Babel? What offends God?

That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, ...

E x o 32:30 It came to pass on the next day that Moses said to the people: "You have committed a grave sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I will obtain atonement for your sin 31. And Moses returned to the Lord and said: "Please! This people has committed a grave sin. They have made themselves a god of gold. 32. And now, if You forgive their sin But if not, erase me now from Your book, which You have written." 33. And the Lord said to Moses: "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase from My book!" 34. And now go, lead the people to [the place] of which I have spoken to you. Behold My angel will go before you. But on the day I make an accounting [of sins upon them], I will bring their sin to account against them."

Putting the verse back into context clearly shows that Moses was unable to atone for other people. Vicarious atonement is not allowed. Continiung:

D e u t 24:16 - Fathers shall not be put to death because of children, nor shall children be put to death for fathers; each person shall be put to death for his own sin.

You're misunderstanding the entire article altogether.

Blessings
Mitzi

[Tanakh Keeper]

You're misunderstanding the entire article altogether.

Blessings
Mitzi

Who cares about the article? It is written by a Christian trained writer who gets the facts from the Tanakh wrong. You summed up the article in your post as:

How is atonement made? Someone stands between the offender and the offended. Someone acts as the mediator. Someone offers payment on behalf of the offender in order to restore the relationship with the offended.

The article’s conclusion is wrong. As I pointed out with a complete and in-context showing of E x o 32:30-34, G-d doesn’t accept payment for sins from mediators. There is no place in the Tanakh that states that anyone other than the offender can atone for sins. We are told by G-d repetitively that vicarious atonement isn’t allowed.

E x o 32:31-34. And Moses returned to the Lord and said: "Please! This people has committed a grave sin. They have made themselves a god of gold 32. And now, if You forgive their sin But if not, erase me now from Your book, which You have written." 33. And the Lord said to Moses: "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase from My book!" 34. And now go, lead the people to [the place] of which I have spoken to you. Behold My angel will go before you. But on the day I make an accounting [of sins upon them], I will bring their sin to account against them."

D e u t 24:16. Fathers shall not be put to death because of sons, nor shall sons be put to death because of fathers; each man shall be put to death for his own transgression.

N u m 35:33. And you shall not corrupt the land in which you live, for the blood corrupts the land, and the blood which is shed in the land cannot be atoned for except through the blood of the one who shed it.

Now if you want to prove that vicarious atonement is allowed, it is up to you to present text from the Tanakh, rather than from articles on the web, to prove your point. None of the verses that you cited have anything to do with vicarious atonement.

[mitzi]

[QUOTE]

Who cares about the article? It is written by a Christian trained writer who gets the facts from the Tanakh wrong. You summed up the article in your post as:

You did - that's why you asked.

The article’s conclusion is wrong. As I pointed out with a complete and in-context showing of E x o 32:30-34, G-d doesn’t accept payment for sins from mediators. There is no place in the Tanakh that states that anyone other than the offender can atone for sins. We are told by G-d repetitively that vicarious atonement isn’t allowed.

It came to pass on the next day that Moses said to the people: "You have committed a grave sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I will obtain atonement for your sin."

"31. And Moses returned to the Lord and said: "Please! This people has committed a grave sin. They have made themselves a god of gold. 32. And now, if You forgive their sin But if not, erase me now from Your book, which You have written. 33. And the Lord said to Moses: "Whoever has sinned against Me, him I will erase from My book!"

What! does Moses tell the people in verse 29, "And Moses said: "Initiate yourselves today (Consecrate yourselves today, Dedicate yourselves today to the Lord,)for the Lord for each man with his son and with his brother so that He may bestow a blessing upon you this day." That command came after "on that day some three thousand men fell from among the people" - why would Moses ask this out of the remnants of the people who fell that day?...He may bestow upon you a blessing this day, for every man has opposed his son and his brother

4The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.

(**Highlighting 2 Samuel 12:12For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.**)

5So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor.”

6Then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and into the woman’s body. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10The Lord said to Moses, 11“Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites; for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal I did not put an end to them. 12Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites.”

2 Samuel: 12: 15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.

20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.


David, received his answer from God - 22And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?