An Interesting articl on the Unitarian Universalists

[Cow Poke]

You say the nicest things CP although sometimes from left field.

We shall now return this thread to Cu and his rather unorthodox beliefs.

[shunyadragon]

Joining a religion because of shared political causes sounds potentially dangerous.

The same as religions with religious political causes as with the contemporary political crisis in the US.

[shunyadragon]

Unitarian Universalists are fast becoming nobodies by defending state backed same sex unions.

Actually they are ahead of the curve. That is the nation wide trend in governments and the courts including the acceptance of gays in the military.

[shunyadragon]

I see it differently, in my church we get together because we genuinely like each other, and having folks of different religious traditions work for us.
It's a place where people DON'T try to get you to believe like they do, but rather finding out what we have in common more than we have that is different.

One common myth is the claim, 'we have no doctrines' and that the UU accepts everyone. The reality the doctrine of UU is predominantly humanist, based on the Humanist Manifesto.

Yes, Unitarians are more inclusive and embrace a greater diversity of beliefs, but than itself represents part of the doctrine.

[Cu Mhorrigan]

One common myth is the claim, 'we have no doctrines' and that the UU accepts everyone. The reality the doctrine of UU is predominantly humanist, based on the Humanist Manifesto.

Yes, Unitarians are more inclusive and embrace a greater diversity of beliefs, but than itself represents part of the doctrine.

I can see that point, but shouldn't religion be about serving the people that practice instead of the other way around?
Part of the problem I've noticed about many of the religions out there is that it's all about you, the parishioner, serve US, the religious Hierarchy. In these faiths it's all about letting the religious leaders tell us what to believe, how to think and who to vote for,love, marry, etc..
However, to paraphrase Jesus, "Religion was made for man, not man for religion".

[Cow Poke]

I can see that point, but shouldn't religion be about serving the people that practice instead of the other way around?

You know, sometimes you can sound downright decent!

The Christian religion should be about GOD first, then others ---

Scripture Verse:

Matt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Part of the problem I've noticed about many of the religions out there is that it's all about you, the parishioner, serve US, the religious Hierarchy.

And another part of the problem is - it's all about ME, the parishioner --- I want to be entertained, I don't want to be offended, I don't like 3 of the commandments so don't preach on them, I like rock music style music, I'm not comfortable hearing that....

In these faiths it's all about letting the religious leaders tell us what to believe, how to think and who to vote for,love, marry, etc..
However, to paraphrase Jesus, "Religion was made for man, not man for religion".

I know it's corny, but that's the difference between a "religion" and a "relationship".

[Cu Mhorrigan]

You know, sometimes you can sound downright decent!

Gee, thanks...I think.

The Christian religion should be about GOD first, then others ---

Scripture Verse:

Matt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

All religion should be about the Divine and others, but more often than not, it's about the Hierarchy

And another part of the problem is - it's all about ME, the parishioner --- I want to be entertained, I don't want to be offended, I don't like 3 of the commandments so don't preach on them, I like rock music style music, I'm not comfortable hearing that....

If I don't fit into a particular congregation, then I just shouldn't go there. It's that simple. The way I was taught though was if you find a congregation you mesh well with then you should serve and participate VOLUNTARILY.
I don't go to church to be abused, manipulated, condescended to, etc. I go because I want to be a part of a community.

I know it's corny, but that's the difference between a "religion" and a "relationship".

it is corny and it is false. You have relationships with people you can see and interact with on a frequent basis. My relationship with God as I understand Her has little to do with the congregation I worship with.

[Cow Poke]

Gee, thanks...I think.

Well, my experience has been that you can be downright conversational, then downright inflammatory at the drop of a hat.

religion should be about the Divine and others, but more often than not, it's about the Hierarchy

A) who says?
2) we obviously have vastly different experiences -- there was never any "Heirarchy" in churches I've served, even as pastor. We purposely use titles such as "servant/leader" -- I think you're burning straw

If I don't fit into a particular congregation, then I just shouldn't go there. It's that simple.

It depends on whether you're going there for YOUR purposes, or for God's.

The way I was taught though was if you find a congregation you mesh well with

I think whoever taught you erred... it sounds like more of a "feel good" thing than a "right" thing.

then you should serve and participate VOLUNTARILY.

And you know of churches where they FORCE you to serve?

I don't go to church to be abused, manipulated, condescended to, etc. I go because I want to be a part of a community.

Because it's all about YOU.

it is corny and it is false. You have relationships with people you can see and interact with on a frequent basis. My relationship with God as I understand Her has little to do with the congregation I worship with.

Ah, back to the "Her" God -- you seem to want to sound like you're talking about the same thing the rest of us are, then throw these little curveballs.

[Cu Mhorrigan]

Well, my experience has been that you can be downright conversational, then downright inflammatory at the drop of a hat.

Oh okay...

A) who says?
2) we obviously have vastly different experiences -- there was never any "Heirarchy" in churches I've served, even as pastor. We purposely use titles such as "servant/leader" -- I think you're burning straw

Apparently we have have very different experiences or a different concept of Hierarchy. The concept of Servant and leader IS a Hierarchical one.

It depends on whether you're going there for YOUR purposes, or for God's.

Well considering that I do not claim to know the mind of god,My purposes are all I have to go by, especially if I am going to be honest. I always worry when people claim to "know God's will" because it usually ends in disaster.

I think whoever taught you erred... it sounds like more of a "feel good" thing than a "right" thing.

You should feel good about the congregation you worship with. I am not saying you have to agree 100% with them, but that you like being with the people and you get along well with them. Other wise, you are putting yourself in a situation where you wind up becoming miserable.

And you know of churches where they FORCE you to serve?

as in with a gun to your head? no. Lied to, manipulated, guilt-tripped, yes.

Because it's all about YOU.

Well considering that I would be devoting time energy and effort into being with my congregation, then yes, it should be about me and then the people I am with. "Love your neighbor as yourself" means that I can only treat people the same way I want to be treated by others.

Ah, back to the "Her" God -- you seem to want to sound like you're talking about the same thing the rest of us are, then throw these little curveballs.

That's because I see the divine as a more feminine being that I would a Masculine one.

[Cow Poke]

Apparently we have have very different experiences or a different concept of Hierarchy. The concept of Servant and leader IS a Hierarchical one.

You're not getting it .. . perhaps I should have used a dash instead of a slash... servant-leader --- a leader who leads by serving -- not some potentate who barks orders, but somebody who sets the example by DOING instead of just saying.

You should feel good about the congregation you worship with. I am not saying you have to agree 100% with them, but that you like being with the people and you get along well with them. Other wise, you are putting yourself in a situation where you wind up becoming miserable.

I would put that as secondary -- my primary focus would be truth and practice.

as in with a gun to your head? no. Lied to, manipulated, guilt-tripped, yes.

I don't see you as that vulnerable, Cu.

Well considering that I would be devoting time energy and effort into being with my congregation, then yes, it should be about me and then the people I am with. "Love your neighbor as yourself" means that I can only treat people the same way I want to be treated by others.

Wow... it should be about you THEN the people you're with... I think you're finally agreeing with me. It's all about you.

That's because I see the divine as a more feminine being that I would a Masculine one.

Which is why I think this thread should be in "unorthodox", but ...

[Cu Mhorrigan]

You're not getting it .. . perhaps I should have used a dash instead of a slash... servant-leader --- a leader who leads by serving -- not some potentate who barks orders, but somebody who sets the example by DOING instead of just saying.

Thanks for the clarification. but like I said previously, many church leaders are more focus on the "leadership" part than the servant part.

I would put that as secondary -- my primary focus would be truth and practice.

My belief is that no ONE person can know the whole entirety of truth. So in my case, it would be pointless to look for a congregation that claims such. I would much rather be a part of a congregation where we focus on a relationship with each other, as opposed to listening to a leader that says "I will teach you about something I dont have the entire grasp on".

I don't see you as that vulnerable, Cu.

yeah well I was once young and stupid. and after bitter experience I learned better.

Wow... it should be about you THEN the people you're with... I think you're finally agreeing with me. It's all about you.

you missed the second part of what I said. You cannot "love your neighbor as yourself" if you don't like yourself very much. And there are times when it is in your own best interest to be a little selfish. Especially when you are in a situation where you are working on your own spirituality. Notice I said "A LITTLE".

Which is why I think this thread should be in "unorthodox", but ...

I am stating my own beliefs not necessarily those of the UUA.

[Cow Poke]

Thanks for the clarification. but like I said previously, many church leaders are more focus on the "leadership" part than the servant part.

I imagine that's true, but many church leaders are also out there to serve the flocks they shepherd.

My belief is that no ONE person can know the whole entirety of truth. So in my case, it would be pointless to look for a congregation that claims such.

straw

I would much rather be a part of a congregation where we focus on a relationship with each other, as opposed to listening to a leader that says "I will teach you about something I dont have the entire grasp on".

more straw

yeah well I was once young and stupid. and after bitter experience I learned better.

And bitter experience often sends us in the WAY wrong direction. I honestly believe that's what happened to you, but that's just my opinion.

[Cu Mhorrigan]

I imagine that's true, but many church leaders are also out there to serve the flocks they shepherd.

and that's the kind of Church I attend. At least now...

straw
more straw

Calling my beliefs "straw" does not change the fact that they are my stated beliefs.
My statement still stands that I do not believe that any human being can claim knowledge of ALL truth.

And bitter experience often sends us in the WAY wrong direction. I honestly believe that's what happened to you, but that's just my opinion.

Straw
In my case I had to learn the hard way that the religious practice I was involved with was extremely unhealthy.
I also had to see where and why I should no longer be involved in Fundie christianity.
Bitter experience taught me to never ever become a fundie christian again.

[Pilgrim]

no more dangerous than Conservatives using fundamentalist christianity to further their own agenda. There are some politcal beliefs i disagree with my pastor on but we get along great.




I see it differently, in my church we get together because we genuinely like each other, and having folks of different religious traditions work for us.
It's a place where people DON'T try to get you to believe like they do, but rather finding out what we have in common more than we have that is different.

Sounds more like a Rotary meeting than a faith gathering then. Why call it church? Why not just join the Kiwanis?

[Cow Poke]

Calling my beliefs "straw" does not change the fact that they are my stated beliefs.

I wasn't calling your "beliefs" straw, Cu... you had said...

My belief is that no ONE person can know the whole entirety of truth. So in my case, it would be pointless to look for a congregation that claims such.

My point is that I don't think MOST ministers claim or believe they know the "whole entirety of truth" -- I think that's straw.
And WHO is EXPECTING you to look for a congregation that claims that? That was "more straw".

My statement still stands that I do not believe that any human being can claim knowledge of ALL truth.

Who is claiming that?

In my case I had to learn the hard way that the religious practice I was involved with was extremely unhealthy.
I also had to see where and why I should no longer be involved in Fundie christianity.
Bitter experience taught me to never ever become a fundie christian again.

And, again, "bitter experience" can cause bad scoobies.