Fast and Furious; Obama's Watergate?

[seanD]

Accusations of drug money laundering assisted by the feds now. You tie this in with the Iran Contra affair and... this is looking really really weird.

http://thehill.com/video/house/19749...ering-hearing-

It's amusing, almost bordering on insulting, that they keep using the excuse that this was done to track down drug cartels. I guess if that's the only explanation you can come up with that doesn't imply incredibly immoral actions, you go with it.

[Mountain Man]

If the mainstream media would actually do its job and start investigating and reporting this stuff then Obama would have no chance of being reelected. For that matter, he would have never been elected in the first place. But, of course, he's the left's best chance at the moment of ushering in their socialist utopia, so they continue to do everything they can to protect him.

[seanD]

If the mainstream media would actually do its job and start investigating and reporting this stuff then Obama would have no chance of being reelected. For that matter, he would have never been elected in the first place. But, of course, he's the left's best chance at the moment of ushering in their socialist utopia, so they continue to do everything they can to protect him.

The media is definitely keeping this quiet for the most part, but I'm not sure how it's a partisan thing. Of course, it's partisan when we look at extreme left outlets like msnbc and media matters. But there are a lot of "right leaning" or "more center" outlets that aren't giving this much exposure, or at least as much as you'd expect of something of this nature. The House has also been strangely quiet about this for the most part. I think if more representatives jumped on board and made a stink about it, the media would have no choice but give it more air time.

[Rational Gaze]

And a way to appeal to the anti-gun constitutency

Ugh. I live in a country where you can't even own a weapon for the purpose of home-defence. You can pretty much get done for hitting a criminal with a cricket bat. It is so mind numbingly infuriating and stupid. This is one reason why I want to move to America. I do hope stupid people don't change this.

[seanD]

Ugh. I live in a country where you can't even own a weapon for the purpose of home-defence. You can pretty much get done for hitting a criminal with a cricket bat. It is so mind numbingly infuriating and stupid. This is one reason why I want to move to America. I do hope stupid people don't change this.

It won't change now. Gun sales skyrocketed when Obama got into office and did the same this year in spite of the presidential election primaries, which means people are not confident in the system in general. So a potential gun ban in America won't have a leg to stand on at this point.

[Rational Gaze]

So a potential gun ban in America won't have a leg to stand on at this point.

That's good to know. I don't want to live somewhere where I can't defend my loved ones from attack.

[rogue06]

Did CBS find the (no pun intended) smoking gun? CBS News has reported that the BATF “discussed using their covert operation Fast and Furious to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.” Specifically, officials wanted guns to fall into Mexican drug cartel hands and be traced back to gun dealers in the U.S. in order to help make a case for requiring dealers to report individuals who buy more than one detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifle over .22 caliber in a five day period.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

Source

© source where applicable

IOW, this was all about more domestic gun control legislation.

[Cow Poke]

Did CBS find the (no pun intended) smoking gun? CBS News has reported that the BATF “discussed using their covert operation Fast and Furious to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.” Specifically, officials wanted guns to fall into Mexican drug cartel hands and be traced back to gun dealers in the U.S. in order to help make a case for requiring dealers to report individuals who buy more than one detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifle over .22 caliber in a five day period.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

Source

© source where applicable

IOW, this was all about more domestic gun control legislation.

You think this will actually go anywhere?

[Challenger Grim]

Did CBS find the (no pun intended) smoking gun? CBS News has reported that the BATF “discussed using their covert operation Fast and Furious to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.” Specifically, officials wanted guns to fall into Mexican drug cartel hands and be traced back to gun dealers in the U.S. in order to help make a case for requiring dealers to report individuals who buy more than one detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifle over .22 caliber in a five day period.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

Source

© source where applicable

IOW, this was all about more domestic gun control legislation.

I only wish this could get attention when the 2012 election starts heating up. It'd be a great to counter Obama's "I killed Osama" with "and you armed mexican drug cartels in the process."

[seanD]

Did CBS find the (no pun intended) smoking gun? CBS News has reported that the BATF “discussed using their covert operation Fast and Furious to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.” Specifically, officials wanted guns to fall into Mexican drug cartel hands and be traced back to gun dealers in the U.S. in order to help make a case for requiring dealers to report individuals who buy more than one detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifle over .22 caliber in a five day period.

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

Source

© source where applicable

IOW, this was all about more domestic gun control legislation.

We can only hope that's the best case theory.

[seanD]

Make of this whatever you will...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/do...212342503.html

Use whatever excuse or rationalization you can use to solve the dissonance of our preconceived notion of US government morality. Even you believe for a minute the harebrained excuse they use for shipping cocaine and money into other countries so that they can take down cartels... if they lost track of the guns they shipped into other countries that ended up at several crime scenes, how are they keeping track of the cocaine they help ship into other countries?

[seanD]

I put this here because I didn't want to throw Technomage's thread way off topic.

Fast and Furious is a bad analogy. First off the program was initiated by the Bush administration not the Obama administration. Second the gist of the program was not to allow guns to freely find their way to Mexican drug lords in order to trace where they were going. That was already happening any way because of the state gun laws, or lack thereof. The purpose was to stop them from getting to their intended destination in the first place, arresting the buyers before they had a chance to sell them, but as it turned out the buyers could not be arrested because of state laws which legally allowed the buying and selling of all those guns. So the program was an attempt to stop the flow of guns to mexico, not to allow them to go in order to trace them. The guns that killed the border patrol agent were legally allowed to be bought and the buyer could not be arrested due to state gun laws. The program was a bust, but it was a bust because of state jurisdiction which prevented federal agents from stopping the flow of guns, not because federal agents were allowing the flow of guns. Second Romney is taking direct credit for the success of the Salt Lake City Olympics, and the way he managed it, so he can't dissasociate himself when it turns out to be bad management.

That story is a total farce. The initial claim from government memos was that the guns were being used to trace drug cartels, which would have been an unnecessary story if the ATF was being prevented from stopping the flow due to state gun laws. And that obstruction of the investigation has been coming from the highest levels of government also debunks that argument. In fact, if this happened because of lax gun laws, this would work in Obama's and Holder's favor and bolster their anti-gun stances.

Jim, stop being brainwashed by TYT.