Trial for church who beat gay member to 'expel his demons'

[Starlight]

The trial began last week for a group of church members who attacked a member of their congregation to 'expel his demons'.

:


Apparently this church has a regular practice of violent exorcisms:

Based on interviews with 43 former members, documents and secretly made recordings, the AP reported in February that Word of Faith Fellowship congregants were regularly punched, smacked, choked, slammed to the floor or thrown through walls in a violent form of deliverance meant to "purify" sinners by beating out devils.

On Friday, in court, one of the parishioners admitted to leading the assault on this man:


On the plus side, I guess they didn't throw him off a building. And they're being charged with assault and kidnap (they prevented him leaving the church while they assaulted him), so we can hope that some form of justice might prevail... although if the jury is filled with religious nuts, who knows?

I met a guy here in NZ who had moved here from Argentina after being subjected by his family and church to an involuntary 'exorcism' for his 'gay demons'. Apparently there's a lot of that going around... yay, religion.

[Darth Executor]

Did it work?

[Jedidiah]

If I were on his jury he would pay the full penalty. That is not something that a real Christian church could do.

[TheWall]

I find it odd. Nowhere would jesus condone this and yet somehow the bible will be blamed. It is a shame Joe Dallas is not anecessary ever day name to christians.

[TheWall]

If anything all this proves is this.
1. That all humans are wicked and in need of a savior.
2. That the church desperately needs to read Joe Dallas
3. That Jesus spoke truthfully in Mathew when he said that not all who call him Lord are saved.
One might say perhaps that this evil act is logically incoherent with an all perfect God. I say no. This implicit argument is faulty as it refuses to take in that humans having free will do choose evil sometimes. It is God's will for us to come to him by choice. To remove free will would be evil.

[Scrawly]

Plot twist: The violent "congregants", aka cult members, are actually the one's with demons.

[Cow Poke]

I met a guy here in NZ who had moved here from Argentina after being subjected by his family and church to an involuntary 'exorcism' for his 'gay demons'. Apparently there's a lot of that going around... yay, religion.

Wow, TWO whole cases - yes, a worldwide epidemic -- no, PANDEMIC!!!!

I've missed you, Starlight.

[demi-conservative]

Did it work?

From link of Starlight:

[Tassman]

I find it odd. Nowhere would jesus condone this and yet somehow the bible will be blamed. It is a shame Joe Dallas is not anecessary ever day name to christians.

The bible will be blamed because it condemns homosexuality as an abomination. These nuts were merely acting upon it.

Did it work?

Reparative therapy, so called, never works and often causes great harm.

[Charles]

Romans chapter 1 (King James version)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


Looking at all of this I can honestly say that I am not surprised that members of the church find strange ways of treating homosexuals. Some have pointed out that what this specific church has done has no founding in scripture. However, looking in scripture, we can clearly see that it states that "such things are worthy of death". Now a ton of acts are listed but they are all mentioned in the context in which homosexual activities are mentioned.

Some of you will no doubt mention the context, and that love is the essence. However, one wonders where to find the love in "God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". Where is the love in giving up somebody? We are also told that they are without excuse. Christians often point out that God loves the homosexual but not his homosexual activities. How does that statement fit with the lines just quoted?

So, I would say, looking at what scripture actually does say as opposed to what Christians are actually doing, does not solve the problem in this case. It is really no surprise that texts like these have very harmful consequences.

[Starlight]

So, I would say, looking at what scripture actually does say as opposed to what Christians are actually doing, does not solve the problem in this case. It is really no surprise that texts like these have very harmful consequences.

There is certainly plenty of ways to justify really nasty actions with biblical verses. If they had gone by the "God's laws" in Leviticus, they could have stoned him to death for it.

The bible is large and contains many verses offering ample support for those wanting to do harm to others and find biblical justification for it.

[Meh Gerbil]

Romans chapter 1 (King James version)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


Looking at all of this I can honestly say that I am not surprised that members of the church find strange ways of treating homosexuals. Some have pointed out that what this specific church has done has no founding in scripture. However, looking in scripture, we can clearly see that it states that "such things are worthy of death". Now a ton of acts are listed but they are all mentioned in the context in which homosexual activities are mentioned.

Some of you will no doubt mention the context, and that love is the essence. However, one wonders where to find the love in "God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". Where is the love in giving up somebody? We are also told that they are without excuse. Christians often point out that God loves the homosexual but not his homosexual activities. How does that statement fit with the lines just quoted?

So, I would say, looking at what scripture actually does say as opposed to what Christians are actually doing, does not solve the problem in this case. It is really no surprise that texts like these have very harmful consequences.

Bearing in mind that the chapter breaks in the Bible weren't added until much later.
The very next verse:

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. - Romans 2:1

I've not seen this much selective editing since I last watched CNN.

[tabibito]

There is certainly plenty of ways to justify really nasty actions with biblical verses. If they had gone by the "God's laws" in Leviticus, they could have stoned him to death for it.

The bible is large and contains many verses offering ample support for those wanting to do harm to others and find biblical justification for it.

Assuming that is, that we ignore the fact that the New Covenant supersedes the old, which is a matter explicitly stated - in the Old Testament and in the New.

[firstfloor]

If anything all this proves is this.
1. That all humans are wicked and in need of a savior.
2. That the church desperately needs to read Joe Dallas
3. That Jesus spoke truthfully in Mathew when he said that not all who call him Lord are saved.
One might say perhaps that this evil act is logically incoherent with an all perfect God. I say no. This implicit argument is faulty as it refuses to take in that humans having free will do choose evil sometimes. It is God's will for us to come to him by choice. To remove free will would be evil.

[Charles]

Bearing in mind that the chapter breaks in the Bible weren't added until much later.
The very next verse:

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. - Romans 2:1

I've not seen this much selective editing since I last watched CNN.

What does that verse do to help that homosexuals are described in the most unworthy and humiliating words? What does it do to help a Christian homosexual feeling shamefull? Christian societies convinced they cannot allow homosexuals to marry and feel they need to cure them? Churches have come up with many absurdities to try to cure homosexuals which have caused a lot of harm.

It may be I cannot judge them. But I still have to believe the most unworthy stuff about them if I trust the Bible.