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UK election today

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    The Exit Polls appear to have been pretty much correct.
    Sadly yes. A hung parliament is the worst of all possible worlds.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      You virtually have one in the US, what with Trump demanding personal loyalty from the likes of Comey.
      ...which has essentially nothing to do with whether the US is a monarchy (virtually or not). This is basically a non sequitur on your part.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Am watching the BBC coverage as the UK election unfolds. Some very interesting trends...

        - It's still too-close to call. It currently looks like neither Labour (left) nor Conservatives (right, current government) will have an outright majority, which means post-election they will need to negotiate with other parties to form a ruling coalition government. Obviously Theresa May's (Prime Minister) decision to have an early election to increase her majority has not paid off, and her majority has vanished. Even if her party can form a government, she herself will likely be replaced as its leader (in parliamentary systems where there is no president, the ruling party can change its leader at any time - like how the Speaker of the House can be changed in the US)
        Conservatives will probably team up with Northern Irelands DUP to form a majority. however Theresa May is vulnerable now. Perhaps she will resign, only time will tell.
        Originally posted by Starlight
        - Labour (left) is gaining lots of seats. Everyone is praising Labour's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, even his enemies. I watched his speech and he has become an excellent speaker.
        Firstly Labour have made gains mainly in London - where they have mobilised the masses of Remainers, especially those who didnt vote in the referendum, to vote. They have not actually made massive gains in their traditional areas like the North East -places like Newcastle and Sunderland - where they have won, yes, but the margins by which they have won have gone down and the Conservatives have gone up. Jeremy Corban has also ran a campaign of lies promising spending which he will not be able to fund. He has promised an end to austerity and billions to NHS and an end to tuition fees for University students and another minimum twenty thousand bobbies on the streets etc. He says he is going to pay for it by raising tax to 50 pence in the pound for any earnings over £80 000. Right now iirc correctly tax for any earnings over £45 000 is 40 pence in the pound and 20 pence in the pound for any earnings over £11 000. For starters the reason we are in austerity is Labour's uncontrolled spending during their time in power under Blair and Brown. Tories cut police numbers by 20 000 and this was brought up all the time by the Corbyn campaign. Police are only effective if they can do their jobs and Labour most definitely favour criminals and terrorists when it comes to policy so what difference does it make if they have police on the ground who do nothing but give money and opportunities to criminals and terrorists because Labour's answer is always that these groups only do what they do because of poverty and dearth of opportunity. This has been shown to be nonsense in the case of terrorists when most of those who went to fight for ISIS in Syria were on track for best education and jobs - engineers doctors etc. These people were practically wallowing in opportunity that came easy to them. The only opportunities my kids have ever had have been through the sweat of my and their own brows. That creep who bombed Manchester funded a lot of his activity with his university grants. He dropped out almost immediately but was still collecting money in tbe second year.

        Originally posted by Starlight
        - Now that UKIP's (alt-right) purpose of the Brexit vote has been achieved, the vote for UKIP has collapsed completely, and unexpectedly to everyone, UKIP voters seem to have split equally among Labour (left) and Conservative (right).
        This was bound to happen because the real competition was between Conservatives and Labour. Labour is left but a lot of those voting for them are right in a lot of areas and only vote Labour because of their personal economic reasons and Labours promise to end austerity.

        Originally posted by Starlight
        - The SNP (left-leaning Scottish National Party) who's primary purpose was Scottish independence, who semi-achieved their goal of having a referendum on Scottish independence and having the referendum fail, has had its share of the vote collapse, and surprisingly to everyone its seats seem to have been split among Labour and Conservatives with seemingly slightly more going to the Conservatives. Scotland has traditionally been extremely liberal compared to England, so seeing Scotland vote for Conservatives is really strange.
        Again you cannot assume Conservatives are non liberal. In economic areas yes but in other areas they arent. Nicola Sturgeon has been feathering her own nest and people dont like it.

        Originally posted by Starlight
        - Theresa May reminds me of Hillary Clinton in terms of being absolutely terrible at campaigning and being uninspiring when talking.
        Yes you are so right. She was terrible. When I watched the debate the other night a nurse said she has not had a rise in years even though living costs have gone up (My husband, not a nurse, has seen the same with no real pay rise in about 7years and so I am sure this is true for a lot of people). Firstly Theresa May seemed to think they had had raises but the problem is when you have a raise of 1% after all is said and done with tax and NI contributions and inflation you dont see a raise in real terms and everybody knows how MPs raise their own salaries. I know Theresa May does have a heart for working ckass people but she just said we all just have to make hard choices because there is only so much money to go around. This is very true but she could have at least sympathised with the lady and it would have been sincere whereas with lots of Labour people the just gush out pseudosympathy which is just a means to an end in getting votes since they actually despise a lot of the working class especially those who voted Leave in the referendum (so the people who have been most affected by their policies)
        Last edited by Abigail; 06-09-2017, 02:41 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
          ...which has essentially nothing to do with whether the US is a monarchy (virtually or not). This is basically a non sequitur on your part.


          It was intended as a lighthearted comment on Trump’s self-aggrandisement and demand for total personal loyalty, as opposed to loyalty to the Constitution.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Now that UKIP's (alt-right) purpose of the Brexit vote has been achieved, the vote for UKIP has collapsed completely, and unexpectedly to everyone, UKIP voters seem to have split equally among Labour (left) and Conservative (right).
            Only to progtards like you who can't accept that lots of usually left voters voted for Brexit (also for Trump)!!

            Theresa May reminds me of Hillary Clinton in terms of being absolutely terrible at campaigning and being uninspiring when talking.
            Has there ever been inspiring female candidate??
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Abigail View Post
              Firstly Labour have made gains mainly in London - where they have mobilised the masses of Remainers, especially those who didnt vote in the referendum, to vote. They have not actually made massive gains in their traditional areas like the North East -places like Newcastle and Sunderland - where they have won, yes, but the margins by which they have won have gone down and the Conservatives have gone up.
              So if I understand this correctly...native Brits voting less for lib party, but immigrants are? Shocking, I know!!
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Sadly yes. A hung parliament is the worst of all possible worlds.
                You forgot to whine about Russians!!!

                Originally posted by Rodent View Post
                I'm really excited to see who the Russians pick to run the U.K.
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  So if I understand this correctly...native Brits voting less for lib party, but immigrants are? Shocking, I know!!
                  Lots of native Brits have voted for Labour too, because of promises to end austerity, London has a large immigrant population but so do other cities in UK. Lots of native Brits wanted Remain too so one cant say this or that. Remainers were complacent in the referendum and Leavers obviously had motive to vote. The Remainers then wanted to cry and call foul. Labout targeted all these people - including the young who are more liberal (I would argue because liberals hold control in most sixth form schools, colleges and universities and do not hesitate to indoctrinate young people at every opportunity - captive audiences)..

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    My prediction: the polls will be wrong.
                    Prediction confirmed. Almost all polls predicted (incorrectly) a conservative majority.

                    But this time they got it wrong in the right direction
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Abigail View Post
                      Conservatives will probably team up with Northern Irelands DUP to form a majority.
                      Yep. Seems to be their plan.

                      however Theresa May is vulnerable now. Perhaps she will resign, only time will tell.
                      Since she's refusing to resign, she'll be pushed out once the party settles on a new leader to rally behind.

                      Jeremy Corban has also ran a campaign of lies promising spending which he will not be able to fund... He says he is going to pay for it by raising tax to 50 pence in the pound for any earnings over £80 000.
                      So he will be able to fund it by raising taxes, and hence he wasn't lying.

                      For starters the reason we are in austerity is Labour's uncontrolled spending during their time in power under Blair and Brown.
                      Um...



                      The mind boggles at how you can blame Blair (PM from 1997 to 2007) for that debt. Blaming Brown (PM from 2007 to May 2010) is more plausible as he added about 24 percentage points worth of debt. But the Conservatives under Cameron (PM from May 2010 to 2016) then added about 20 percentage points worth of debt. So Cameron (Conservatives) and Brown (Labour) appear about equally blameworthy. I don't think you can reasonably blame Blair given the debt dropped about 5 percentage points during his leadership!

                      Let me add that I think austerity is generally a bad economic policy, and that increasing taxes on the wealthy is generally a much better route to balancing the books than is cutting spending, especially in the present day where there is record levels of wealth among the wealthy and record inequality and where the NHS clearly needs more funding. The UK clearly needs more taxes on the wealthy and more spending on government services like the NHS. The UK is below the OECD average for the amount of revenue its government takes in taxes, and France has tax rates that are half again as high as the UK, so there is great scope for raising taxes in the UK and good reason to do so. It seems to me the only sensible discussion to be having is exactly which taxes to raise (e.g. capital gains tax, company tax, wealth tax, financial transactions tax, income tax etc).
                      Last edited by Starlight; 06-09-2017, 04:45 AM.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Roy View Post
                        Prediction confirmed. Almost all polls predicted (incorrectly) a conservative majority.

                        But this time they got it wrong in the right direction
                        The polls were trending clearly toward a smaller and smaller victory for the conservatives in the weeks leading up to election day. The Exit Polls on the day were simply a continuation of that trend in predicting the Conservatives would beat Labour by a narrow margin but not have enough seats to govern alone, and they turned out to be right. I would say that overall the polls were pretty much 99% accurate this election cycle.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                          Has there ever been inspiring female candidate??
                          We've had some good ones here in NZ. Helen Clark was our Prime Minister for 9 years and was well-liked and then had one of the top UN jobs for 8 years.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Yep. Seems to be their plan.

                            Since she's refusing to resign, she'll be pushed out once the party settles on a new leader to rally behind.

                            So he will be able to fund it by raising taxes, and hence he wasn't lying.

                            Um...



                            The mind boggles at how you can blame Blair (PM from 1997 to 2007) for that debt. Blaming Brown (PM from 2007 to May 2010) is more plausible as he added about 24 percentage points worth of debt. But the Conservatives under Cameron (PM from May 2010 to 2016) then added about 20 percentage points worth of debt. So Cameron (Conservatives) and Brown (Labour) appear about equally blameworthy. I don't think you can reasonably blame Blair given the debt dropped about 5 percentage points during his leadershi
                            Let me add that I think austerity is generally a bad economic policy, and that increasing taxes on the wealthy is generally a much better route to balancing the books than is cutting spending, especially in the present day where there is record levels of wealth among the wealthy and record inequality and where the NHS clearly needs more funding. The UK clearly needs more taxes on the wealthy and more spending on government services like the NHS. The UK is below the OECD average for the amount of revenue its government takes in taxes, and France has tax rates that are half again as high as the UK, so there is great scope for raising taxes in the UK and good reason to do so. It seems to me the only sensible discussion to be having is exactly which taxes to raise (e.g. capital gains tax, company tax, wealth tax, financial transactions tax, income tax etc).
                            You forget the credit crash happened as David Cameron's government took control and obviously billions had to be borrowed to shore up banks and protect certain industries. The fact is the Labour government did have uncontrolled spending and were responsible for the financial state the country was in and that is why they lost that election. The present housing crisis in the country I lay at the feet of Labour since they were the ones in the late 90s and early 0s who made it a crime to save, plundering ISA returns etc and so people started buying up housing stock.

                            There are drawbacks from continually raising taxes. We already pay hugely high tax rates. Tuition fees were a good thing since anyone who needed money got it and it was only payable after completion of studies and when the person was earning over a threshold (annual salary of £21 000 iirc) and at a very low interest rate. IOW those who can pay should. Which incidently is Labours practical policy (never mind election manifestos). ,We have a huge social care bill and it is increasing. Theresa May's policy which caused such ire amongst Corbyn and his supporters basically targetted some of the people mosted hated by Labour - rich old people and yet the turncoat was suddenly calling it a dementia tax etc. The mistake the Tories made was to believe that Labour would see the policy as reasonable and in fact in accord with their principles. Reality is Labour do not have principles and do anything they think will earn them votes

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                            • #29
                              Ha Ha Ha!

                              Love how this spectacularly backfired in their face. Now they have their 'Coalition of Chaos' (a phrase I do hope is thrown in her face in interviews & newspaper articles over the next few days). So just so everyone is clear: for the Tories to end an election campaign which they spent attacking Corbyn for his alleged links to former Northern Irish terrorists by going into coalition with a party founded by former Northern Irish terrorists is a deep irony and they should be roundly ridiculed for doing so. The double standards are extraordinary. And I fully expect the right-wing press to sweep most of this under the carpet (even though Dacre has now essentially signed her political death warrant)

                              Even the nutters a mentalists in the Daily Mail online comments section are calling May & the Tories out on this one.

                              It will be interesting to see how this effects the colossal act of pointless self-harm that was Brexit, seeing as the negotiations (already late as the Tory Brexiteers didn't have a plan in place in the event of a leave vote, other than a couple of vague wishes which have no chance of being granted) is due to begin in around 10 days.
                              Last edited by EvoUK; 06-09-2017, 06:57 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                                Has there ever been inspiring female candidate??
                                Margaret Thatcher? Golda Meir?
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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