Originally posted by tabibito
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Humans around longer than thought
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Last edited by Roy; 06-12-2017, 09:26 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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I posted the dictionary definition - what definition are you posting?
here's another one, from Encyclopaedia Britannica: Spontaneous generation, the hypothetical process by which living organisms develop from nonliving matter; also, the archaic theory that utilized this process to explain the origin of life.
Oh - you posted the archaic definition, not the current definition.
Let's try another definition:
[Farlex Dictionary](Biology) a theory, widely held in the 19th century and earlier but now discredited, stating that living organisms could arise directly and rapidly from nonliving material. Also called: abiogenesis .... Abiogenesis = Spontaneous Generation.
How about Merriam Webster : a now discredited notion that living organisms spontaneously originate directly from nonliving matter —called also abiogenesis
The SCIENCE of evolution makes no claims about the origins of life
The SCIENCE of biology declares spontaneous generation to be a discredited hypothesis.
The evolution FAITHERS declare biologists wrong.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostI posted the dictionary definition - what definition are you posting?
What I am not doing, but you are, is conflating the modern usage of 'abiogenesis' with the previous use of that term to refer to spontaneous generation.
'Abiogenesis' can mean spontaneous generation, just like 'bull' can mean a male whale. That does not mean that 'male whale' refers to a bovine, or 'spontaneous generation' refers to the current theories on life's origins.
Pretending that it does is dishonest.The SCIENCE of biology declares spontaneous generation to be a discredited hypothesis.
The evolution FAITHERS declare biologists wrong.Last edited by Roy; 06-12-2017, 10:26 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Dictionaries: spontaneous generation, called also abiogenesis.
Roy: 'Abiogenesis' can mean spontaneous generation
Not hard to decide which definition is the more authoritative.
Thought Co: It's a Myth that Abiogenesis is the Same as Evolution. The origin of life is certainly an interesting topic, but it is not a part of evolutionary theory. (and they blame the YECs for circulating the myth.)
abiogenesis is not part of evolutionary theory, in that evolution is the theory of how life changes over time, not how life may have arisen from non-life. (and yes, these too blame the YECs for circulating the myth) - See more at: http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-ven....ncLCSjU1.dpuf1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostDictionaries: spontaneous generation, called also abiogenesis.
Roy: 'Abiogenesis' can mean spontaneous generation
Abiogenesis can also refer to modern theories on the origin of life, which are very very different from the discredited 19th Century ideas about mice being spontaneously generated in grain silos.
If you'd bothered to think about this, or even bothered to look up the definition of 'abiogenesis',* you might have realised that the two statements are actually compatible, that 'abiogenesis' has two distinct meanings, that you are equating them, and that your contention that the discreditation of spontaneous generation has any effect at all on modern theories on the origin of life is false.
You are propagating a lie. Do you care?
*noun: abiogenesis - the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.
•historical - another term for spontaneous generation.Last edited by Roy; 06-12-2017, 10:58 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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*noun: abiogenesis - the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.
No problem with that definition - it is when people claim that abiogenesis is part of the theory of evolution that the problem arises.
abiogenesis is not part of evolutionary theory http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-ven....ncLCSjU1.dpuf1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post*noun: abiogenesis - the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.
that highlights the difference between the ancient use of 'abiogenesis' to refer to mice appearing in grain silos, and the modern usage of 'abiogenesis' that does not refer to the theory of spontaneous generation.
No problem with that definition - it is when people claim that abiogenesis is part of the theory of evolution that the problem arises.
or claim that "abiogenesis" does not mean "spontaneous generation," or that using the term "spontaneous generation" is somehow invalid.
You are propagating a lie, and you don't seem to care.
But that's creationism in a nutshell. Lies generated by those who know better, spread by the gullible.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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ROFL - I used the primary definition. Alternative definitions that weren't relevant weren't posted. Particularly *historical* - the discussion was not about historical use of the term.
And now - if you are willing to leave off the hissy fit (and even if you aren't) - I deny neither the SCIENTIFIC theory of evolution, nor the evidence of the geological record. There was a time when I accepted micro-evolution, but remained skeptical of macro-evolution. When evidence supporting macro-evolution emerged, I accepted that evidence. I regard the idea that some day, paleontologists find that flying creatures pre-date terrestrial as appealing, but if findings refute the possibility (which hasn't yet been done), I'll accept that the Bible is wrong on the point.
You have been wrong on all counts about what I have been saying - and only your own prejudice caused those errors.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostROFL - I used the primary definition. Alternative definitions that weren't relevant weren't posted. Particularly *historical* - the discussion was not about historical use of the term.
And now - if you are willing to leave off the hissy fit (and even if you aren't) - I deny neither the SCIENTIFIC theory of evolution, nor the evidence of the geological record.
You have been wrong on all counts about what I have been saying - and only your own prejudice caused those errors.Last edited by Roy; 06-12-2017, 12:31 PM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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The discussion certainly is about historical use of 'abiogenesis', since that is the definition you used when you wrote "Abiogenesis = Spontaneous Generation".
No mention whatever of an historical use.
And the WEBSTERS definition of abiogenesis:
As to definition B - again it is under the heading of "abiogenesis", where I had checked only spontaneous generation.
I'll take it that Websters is using "theory (in evolution)" as meaning "theory" in the every day use definition, rather than the scientific meaning.
Again no mention of an historical usage. Nor of a change of use over time. The terms are interchangable according to the definition provided for "spontaneous generation."
As to the matter of biology
This one doesn't refer to "discredited theory" - interesting, and there has been a change over the years: abiogenesis actually only encompasses spontaneous generation, so your point about "historical use" is correct after all.
results depend on which term is checked - I'll make a note to cross reference in future.
None of which addresses the reiterated statements that the Theory of Evolution does not address the origins of life
And here's one that is part of a religious site's offering
That's bad news for you Roy - YECs and the like would rather believe what you have to say about evolution than they would people who know what they're talking about.
Here's one from a Christian who knows what he's talking about:
And there you have it - so far, just a hypothesis with some experimental support.
The SCIENTISTS aren't calling it a theory yet.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Contemporary science does research and consider hypothesis and theories for abiogenesis as valid science, and published in peer reviewed journals.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Abiogenesis is part of ongoing research at UNC near where I live.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostI see that you looked up the definition of "abiogenesis" where I looked up "spontaneous generation" - which was clearly indicated in the relevant post, so YOU don't get to lay an accusation of dishonesty.Again no mention of an historical usage. Nor of a change of use over time. The terms are interchangable according to the definition provided for "spontaneous generation."
The theory of spontaneous generation concerns modern organisms such as mold, mice and moths. These are not organic molecules and subsequent simple life forms.
This one doesn't refer to "discredited theory" - interesting, and there has been a change over the years: abiogenesis actually only encompasses spontaneous generation, so your point about "historical use" is correct after all.
And that maybe I do know what I'm talking about?Last edited by Roy; 06-13-2017, 06:41 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostI didn't accuse you of dishonestyOriginally posted by Roy View PostI see you have dishonestly deleted the other definition of abiogenesis:I didn't accuse you of dishonesty,
In a later post, I posted the definitions for abiogenesis - which did show that there were differences.
'nuff said.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Contemporary scientific specific definition for abiogenesis:
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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