The Political Screwballs Thread

[One Bad Pig]

[Augustine2004]

http://www.badscience.net/2003/12/mm...ind-the-facts/

In fact, in general:
http://www.badscience.net/category/mmr/

??What question did you think you were answering? Anyway quotations are indented below, followed by my responses:

the references you need to follow it up

I couldn't find any at the bottom of the article. Maybe in the article itself.

MMR is out of copyright, it’s generic, anyone can make it, you could set up a factory and make it yourself if you wanted; it’s not a money-spinner.

No idea what that means. If anyone thinks he could profit by making generic MMR vaccines, I'd think he was nutty himself, the barrier to entry in the field is too high. And Big Pharma companies wouldn't make big enough profits. Seems to me like the author wasn't thinking things through enough.

(although not in tandem with increasing rates of MMR coverage).

No idea what that means.

The panic began.

Details? Evidence? (Actually, don't bother. Just commenting on the vagueness)

Rates of autism diagnosis have been rising over the past few decades, although probably because people are using the diagnosis more, instead of other descriptors for developmental problems.

poor writing for what I think is 'greater ability or proneness to diagnose autism'

Hey, wait a minute. The 1998 paper only concluded the link was not proven. It urged further research. What the hell is wrong with that? Yet, Sherri Tenpenny complained that Wakefield was persecuted rather soon after. I don't know if she has evidence, but certainly Wakefield is now thought a dangerous nutter.

I can believe Merck is that kind of company that puts profits ahead of people.

Oh, my, Wakefield does come across as a nut. Either he was really nutty, or is there some slanting involved there? I have no well-established idea.

Have to leave. Spending too much time on this anyway. More later, I hope.

[Chrs]

??What question did you think you were answering? Anyway quotations are indented below, followed by my responses:

MMR's safety "issue" and where it came from. It came from Wakefield's incredibly terrible study and massive media mishandling. No good studies have actually shown a link between autism and MMR (And they've been done.)

the references you need to follow it up

Yeah, I made a mistake. I linked to a copy of the article not the actual article. here

No idea what that means. If anyone thinks he could profit by making generic MMR vaccines, I'd think he was nutty himself, the barrier to entry in the field is too high. And Big Pharma companies wouldn't make big enough profits. Seems to me like the author wasn't thinking things through enough.

Context (He was talking about the suggested reasons from the quacks as to why Wakefield was attacked):

The programme also raves on about some grand conspiracy of a big drug company to get rid of Wakefield to make more money from MMR. This is impossible, and anyone can see that by looking in the British National Formulary, online and in most bookshops. MMR is out of copyright, it’s generic, anyone can make it, you could set up a factory and make it yourself if you wanted; it’s not a money-spinner.

The panic began.

This was a massive thing in the news for ages. About 3000 news articles were published in newspapers between 2001 and 2004. There was mass scare in the media and since then cases of measles, mumps and rubella - especially in France where there's been measles outbreaks. Have a wikipedia page

Rates of autism diagnosis have been rising over the past few decades, although probably because people are using the diagnosis more, instead of other descriptors for developmental problems.

That means exactly what it says. More people who previously would be diagnosed as other things are being diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorders. I don't get your confusion.


The 1998 paper was fraudulent, badly designed, badly run and only a study in name only.

Yet, Sherri Tenpenny complained that Wakefield was persecuted rather soon after.

Because he lied and caused a massive scare, the health effects of which are still being felt. He was rightfully struck off of the medical register in 2010.

I don't know if she has evidence, but certainly Wakefield is now thought a dangerous nutter.

He is. Measles is on the rise, mumps. MMR vaccine uptake dropped

All because of one guy pushing an agenda with bad, fraudulent science.

[Teallaura]

Don't try to look innocent! Who are you calling 'well intentioned incompetent', huh?

[Challenger Grim]

Don't try to look innocent! Who are you calling 'well intentioned incompetent', huh?

Hey, I have a good friend who's working in state government, and it's not really something you can argue with very much.

Will someone please tell me how a small group would tend to act after the people give it power? Hand Mao's people power? Let Lenin's people power? Pol Pot? Let LBJ become a Congressman?

Do you know how many people are in the federal government? (just setting aside state governments)

How is several THOUSANDS of people a "small group"?

Why do people support the State? Perhaps the chief reason is that they think it would make the world better. I think otherwise.

Your sig has a quotation, part of which is relevant here: '. . . frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed . . .' "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded- here and there, now and then- are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.”"

— Robert A. Heinlein

This is just incoherent.

Unfortunately, we have fascism: One hallmark is a partnership between government and Big Businesses. We have Big Medicine and Big Pharma, for two things. The FDA goes through the motions to safeguard our health against rapacious businesses, but there's too much evidence to the contrary, such as recalls, some of which take a long time to occur.

Yeah... except vaccines were "found", developed and proven in the days before there was anything such as "big medicine" and "big pharma". So your one coherent point fails even harder.

[rogue06]

Don't try to look innocent! Who are you calling 'well intentioned incompetent', huh?

That isn't OBP trying to look innocent



THIS is OBP trying to look innocent (and it isn't pretty):
obp1.gif obp2.gif

[Sparko]

So, you never noticed the curious lack of resemblance of the chins of the two photographs that I cited? And there are other signs of fakery. Won't you please look at 'Special Report' that I will eventually get around to citing? How can you dismiss anything you have not inspected?

The only difference in the chins is the light and shadow on it. I took the mug shot and superimposed it on the life magazine and adjusting for angle of the face, all of the features line up, including the eyes, nose, ears and chin.

see my post here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...98#post3317898

[One Bad Pig]

Don't try to look innocent! Who are you calling 'well intentioned incompetent', huh?

There are exceptions . . . like my sister.

[Teallaura]

Hey, I have a good friend who's working in state government, and it's not really something you can argue with very much.

Do you know how many people are in the federal government? (just setting aside state governments)

How is several THOUSANDS of people a "small group"?

2,823,777 in 2009.

http://www.census.gov/govs/apes/hist...data_2009.html

[Raphael]

Is the "few people" like Ty's short war?

[KingsGambit]

I work in government and I don't know that I'd call myself completely competent *shrugs*

[Teallaura]

But are you well intentioned?

[One Bad Pig]

But are you well intentioned?

I'm sure the people who designed your favorite database were well-intentioned.

[Raphael]

I'm sure the people who designed your favorite database were well-intentioned.

Of course they were. They were teaching her the value of patience.

[Teallaura]

I'm sure the people who designed your favorite database were well-intentioned.

Actually, the guys that designed it probably were very competent - they are also presently probably long retired! It's the _______ admins who never got around to replacing it and then decided to pretend that it is Excel on steroids that caused all the trouble.






Incidentally, incompetent admins are the norm in both sectors!