The Political Screwballs Thread

[Augustine2004]

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a quack.

...Wait, that metaphor is a bit mixed.

Tell you what, Aug. Pick a few pages and I'll take a look. I'm not going to go through the website and point out the stuff because I do, infact, have other things to do and read

Don't criticize anything until you've inspected it. Sheesh, what a stupid post.

[One Bad Pig]

damn it.

Janet!

[Chrs]

Don't criticize anything until you've inspected it. Sheesh, what a stupid post.

I'm employing a heuristic.

[Manwë Súlimo]

Your mom's a heuristic.

[One Bad Pig]

Your mom's a heuristic.

You wouldn't know a heuristic if it slapped you upside the head.

[Chrs]

You wouldn't know a heuristic if it slapped you upside the head.

No, but i'd work it out.

[Augustine2004]

After fuming about all those negative posts, it occured to me to look for an article on recalls using the google search phrase 'site:drtenpenny.com recall' All I could find was this
http://drtenpenny.com/eliminate_nvia.aspx
That was disappointing, I wanted a list of all recalls or something like that. That article is only from 2004 (can a real quack be around this long?), but anyway it still seems interesting, hardly a thing a quack would write.


Don't you see how much the government tilts the market toward Big Pharma? All those families ripped off and no legal recourse and no resources to prove harm.

[Chrs]

OK, actually I decided to pick the first one on the page. seems interesting.
"The Truth about the flu shot"

On the allergens thing:
The allergens are in low doses. No or low egg vaccines are also available, as will the other allergens. If you know you're allergic to these things, you say and you get given another vaccine. If you have ever had a reaction to the flu jab you're informed you either shouldn't get it again or you're given one that doesn't set off your allergies.

Not in healthy babies: A review of 51 studies involving more than 294,000 children
it was found there was “no evidence that injecting children 6-24 months of age with a flu shot was
any more effective than placebo. In children over 2 yrs, it was only effective 33% of the time in
preventing the flu. Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children." The
Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 2 (2008).

Appropriate study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16437500
Comparison: She's right on this one. According to this meta-analysis, placebo and the vaccine didn't show any improvement for children under 2 that was statistically significant. You'll note that this is why it isn't recommended to give flu vaccines to children unless there's good (other) reason.

The Asthma points don't have publically accessible studies. So, er.

Not in adults: In a review of 48 reports (more than 66,000 adults), “Vaccination of
healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days
by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital
or take time off work.” Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The
Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

Appropriate study: http://www.thecochranelibrary.com/us...e/CD001269.pdf
Comparison:

The review of trials found vaccinations against influenza
avoided 80% of cases at best (in those confirmed by laboratory tests, and using vaccines directed against circulating strains), but only
50% when the vaccine did not match, and 30% against influenza-like illness, in healthy adults

Also, there's no statistically significant difference in hospital days or days of work. Then again, healthy adults aren't really the ones targeted with the vaccines. The high risk groups are. The high risk groups being, for reference:

are 65 years old or over
are pregnant (see below)
have a serious medical condition (see below)
are living in a long-stay residential care home or other long-stay care facility (not including prisons, young offender institutions or university halls of residence)
are the main carer for an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if you fall ill
are a frontline health or social care worker (see below)

More on this towards the bottom.

Not in the Elderly: In a review of 64 studies over 98 flu seasons of elderly living in
nursing homes, flu shots were non-significant for preventing the flu. For elderly living in the
community, vaccines were not (significantly) effective against influenza, ILI or pneumonia.
Reference: “Vaccines for preventing influenza in the elderly.” The Cochrane Database of
Systematic Reviews. 3(2006).

Appropriate study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...21FC46B.d02t03

Comparison: That's not what it says.

The available evidence is of poor quality and provides no guidance regarding the safety, efficacy or effectiveness of influenza vaccines for people aged 65 years or older. To resolve the uncertainty, an adequately powered publicly-funded randomised, placebo-controlled trial run over several seasons should be undertaken.

Although she's a little tiny bit right here - the effectiveness of the flu jab in the elderly is lower than in other age groups because their immune systems aren't as good.

On the other hand, the elderly is the age group most likely to be killed or seriously effected by flu as a result of having weaker immune systems.


More on high risk groups:

• are 65 years old or over - The group with the most deaths from the flu in it.
• are pregnant (see below) - Flu can cause complications with pregnancy and your immune system gets weaker during it. Proven benefits, btw.
• have a serious medical condition (see below) - Often illnesses effect the immune system
• are living in a long-stay residential care home or other long-stay care facility (not including prisons, young offender institutions or university halls of residence) - Required so that the care home (A place when you're in close contact with people all of the time) doesn't have a huge bunch of infected residents.
• are the main carer for an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if you fall ill - Obvious.
• are a frontline health or social care worker (see below) - They deal with patients who have illnesses. Also, falling ill for them is bad in general.

[Chrs]

That article is only from 2004 (can a real quack be around this long?),

Gillian McKeith has her beat on that.

[Chrs]

And not every vaccine is necessary, damn it!

Hey, you're right here. I just thought i'd point this out.

OTOH: Flu, Smallpox and MMR vaccines are in certain groups.

....Oh god, you're going to be one of those "MMR causes Autism" people aren't you?

[Augustine2004]

I wanted a list of drug recalls that is produced independently from the government, but after two search pages, I don't see many websites offering one. I don't know if any one of you will find these persuasive:



http://www.resource4thepeople.com/recalleddrugs/

http://consumerjusticegroup.com/drug...ecalltimeline/ -- note permoline (on the market for 30 years!) I would venture a guess things were more severe every year since 2007 on the year average.



Maybe we do have to rely on government agencies for the list of drug recalls. Not every recall is really justified, but the list may be incomplete. Consider permoline (see above).

[Augustine2004]

....Oh god, you're going to be one of those "MMR causes Autism" people aren't you?

I will have to look into that, but I wouldn't say it that flatly. At most I would say it seems likely. 'Possible.'

Have you looked at thermisol, which I understand is 50% mercury, as a possible cause of autism? If you have, why is it not a possible causitive factor?

I will look at your other posts later and maybe have answers tomorrow.

[Chrs]

Have you looked at thermisol, which I understand is 50% mercury, as a possible cause of autism?

The current scientific consensus is that there's no link. Although it is being phased out in vaccines (because we have better things now.)

[Sparko]

What the hell? What sites?
I googled myself, and this is one of the first that I saw http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-sherri-tenpenny

LOL Huffington Post!!!
...Where she posts blog entries!

and that result doesn't even show up until page two, meaning you had to bypass several entries denouncing her has a dangerous quack, which just goes to show your bias.

[lilpixieofterror]

Silly LPoT, I was agreeing with you.

So like, to use an example (making up numbers), a chance of having a reaction is like... 3% whereas one getting the hypothetical disease is like... 42%.

Oh, I know, I'm just having fun with Augustine, indirectly. Perhaps he would like to see what traditional 'childhood' illnesses do to a person?

Yes, quite right. But then that's what a lot of people don't seem to realize. Medicine involves dozens and dozens of factors.

That is because many don't pay attention in their biology classes (like Augustine didn't seem too).