Christian Education

[Thoughtful Monk]

There are ton's of resources that are available if you know where to look.

I think the real challenge in setting up a good education program is that not everyone is on the same level of interest and education. Most christian education for laity tends to circle around the introductory stuff as a consequence.

I concur. And maybe because churches have limited resources, a class for widest audience (simplest education) is the easiest to do. I wish churches would have classes for different levels with higher expectations for higher levels.

[Thoughtful Monk]

And does that make you feel closer to or further from the group? I understand the feeling - but I find I can't connect if I have to pretend to be something I'm not.

To be fair, knowing when you are going beyond contributing to monopolizing is also a thing...

That's an issue I've faced. Its a problem with how churches do small groups. Get 8 people who can met at the common time and hope they're compatible. Tends to make for shallow groups. Wish you were in my area.

[Teallaura]

I concur. And maybe because churches have limited resources, a class for widest audience (simplest education) is the easiest to do. I wish churches would have classes for different levels with higher expectations for higher levels.

YES!!! Exactly!

We HAVE resources - we don't apply them very well.

[Thoughtful Monk]

1) Scriptural literacy
2) Doctrinal competence
3) Basic theology

I've been thinking about this and I hope we can pick the conversation again.

This is a good list especially if you add in KingsGambit's addition of applicability. All of these points are necessary. Yet it seemed to be lacking to me.

I think the point is what is the purpose of Christian education. Its not solely to fill the head with knowledge. That's mere intellectualism.

I think the purpose for Christian Education is to increase everyone's relationship with God. We don't want to learn about God as an abstract person. We need to learn about God as a being who wants to have a relationship with us, who has positions on issues, who wants events to happen in a certain way, who cares. Not a God who is standing at a distance but it involved in all our lives and wants to be more deeply involved.

This God as an involved being is what I've discovered I'm sorely missing in Christian education these days.

[Obsidian]

There are entire sections of the Bible that people never read. That's the problem.

[One Bad Pig]

Didn't the late 1st c. and early 2nd c. church invent catechism class and the catechumens? I mean, they didn't have the vast resources we possess today and yet, their members were put through a class to be given the basics of Christian education before you could be baptised or accepted into membership. I think today's churches could use a similar type of "class" for all new converts and members. From a practical standpoint, at least members of the local church would be able to consistently express key concepts and not have everyone with responses that are all over the place or not in-line with the church's official stance.



Yea but bored as you may be, if you don't attend, people don't fellowship with you. I don't mean they purposely stay away from you - it just sort of happens. If you don't attend and everyone else does, it just happens. I imagine that a lot of people out there attend these groups, keep quiet, are bored out of their mind, but do so anyway because if they don't, no one will even talk to them. At least that's what I did in the past - I just ended up feeding on online sermons - plenty of those out there. And there are so many free theology courses, too.

DE's church still does catechism class. And simply attending services beyond the Sunday liturgy and listening enables one to grasp key concepts.

[Teallaura]

I've been thinking about this and I hope we can pick the conversation again.

This is a good list especially if you add in KingsGambit's addition of applicability. All of these points are necessary. Yet it seemed to be lacking to me.

I think the point is what is the purpose of Christian education. Its not solely to fill the head with knowledge. That's mere intellectualism.

I think the purpose for Christian Education is to increase everyone's relationship with God. We don't want to learn about God as an abstract person. We need to learn about God as a being who wants to have a relationship with us, who has positions on issues, who wants events to happen in a certain way, who cares. Not a God who is standing at a distance but it involved in all our lives and wants to be more deeply involved.

This God as an involved being is what I've discovered I'm sorely missing in Christian education these days.

I agree - learning Scripture for the sake of saying you know it is a foolish goal. But emphasizing 'how it relates to us now' tends to end up with the mushy, feelly and not really going anywhere education we see today.

I'm a both/and girl - we NEED devotionals, time in reflection, prayer (lots and lots of prayer), and Life Application - but we have left behind the 'nuts and bolts', chap and verse, knowledge of God's word to the point that we can't truly do the former, either. The knowledge of Scripture is just too weak - and the likelihood of error skyrockets.

I think it is the exception that comes to truly know God without a knowledge of His word. It's like getting to know your penpal - minus reading his letters!

As a Methodist, I think both Methodism and the Church Universal could benefit from a 'back to basics, getting serious, step by step' approach.

We need devotional/life application.

We need knowledge.

We need relationship, both with Him and with each other.

We need to get off the pew and into the world.


And we NEED all four all at once.

I think we can use both a renewed emphasis on knowledge education and an emphasis on service to push toward better life application and, most importantly, a drive toward relationship with Him.

That sounds really dorky in print. I see multiple emphasis' - but interwoven, not separated as the modern church tends to do. We need compartments - we don't need to be ruled by them.


That's as clear as mud, isn't it?

[tabibito]

As the gentleman said: Add to your faith, virtue, and to your virtue, knowledge.

It is kind of hard to apply Biblical teaching to one's life without knowing what that teaching is.

[Thoughtful Monk]

As the gentleman said: Add to your faith, virtue, and to your virtue, knowledge.

It is kind of hard to apply Biblical teaching to one's life without knowing what that teaching is.

Absolutely true. I, unfortunately, have been to too many good teachings of the knowledge of the Bible that stop when they reach the application.

[tabibito]

Absolutely true. I, unfortunately, have been to too many good teachings of the knowledge of the Bible that stop when they reach the application.

That's kind of like learning how to use the tiller, but choosing to leave the steering of the good ship "Faith" to the elements, methinks.

[Teallaura]

So, what do we DO about it?

Tighten up curricula? Churches who depend on membership aren't going to want to run off the Sunday School Social Club crowd - and to be fair, this is a LOT like leading the horse to water and trying to shove his nose in.

Do away with Sunday School in favor of small groups? There are advantages to this but if not SERIOUSLY committed to accountability and learning, it's going to become another social club.

Offer better classes at other times? Better - let Horsey come see if he wants the water - assuming he can work it into his schedule.

Require 'certification' after x period in classes? Um, yeah, as long as you can talk every other church in town into it... Next?

Require certification for teachers? Okay - better, but how do you handle Ms Annie who has taught in that church since Adam discovered fig leaves?


My answer - all and none of the above!

Hang in there - I plan to make sense soon.

Yes, we NEED to tighten up our curricula - and our selection processes. NO, we DON'T shove it down people's throats - we do this a year in advance, have suggestions readily at hand when classes hit there inevitable 'what next' phase and socialize the idea (translation - talk to everyone well in advance and get them on board rather than instituting change from On Middle Level (The On High gets to institute whatever He chooses!).

No, 'doing away with' doesn't really solve the problems, it just tosses them elsewhere. However, we CAN make adjustments with a nod toward reality. Sunday School designation goes to classes meeting curricula requirements; devotional class designation goes to those that wish to chart their own course - or stay forever in Adult Bible Studies.

Yes, a more user friendly schedule is a good thing - but the Sunday School block should be for Sunday School - moving devotional classes slightly earlier or later. Then offer School level classes at other times as well. Be flexible - schedules change - let them.

Yes, OFFER certification for School level classes - for pity's sake, let's graduate occasionally! Devotional classes can keep right on keeping on if they like - but School classes should GET somewhere and a lovely piece of paper once they reach it. This is a goal oriented society - use it.

Yes to teacher certification for School classes - Ms Annie can keep doing what she's been doing. And don't for a SECOND knock Ms Annie - God has been using her for umpteen years - only He gets to give her the final grade. Of course, Ms Annie may well surprise you - she may be your first certified teacher!



It sounds easy - it isn't. There's a LOT of work here - but leaving our education in the state it's in is NOT an option. His children deserve to know His word and to understand how it relates to them - and how very much He loves them. A functional Christian education system is a brick in that wall - and ours is crumbling. We need a better brick!

[tabibito]

If only this thread had been started a couple of months earlier

[Thoughtful Monk]

I agree - learning Scripture for the sake of saying you know it is a foolish goal. But emphasizing 'how it relates to us now' tends to end up with the mushy, feelly and not really going anywhere education we see today.

I'm a both/and girl - we NEED devotionals, time in reflection, prayer (lots and lots of prayer), and Life Application - but we have left behind the 'nuts and bolts', chap and verse, knowledge of God's word to the point that we can't truly do the former, either. The knowledge of Scripture is just too weak - and the likelihood of error skyrockets.

I think it is the exception that comes to truly know God without a knowledge of His word. It's like getting to know your penpal - minus reading his letters!

As a Methodist, I think both Methodism and the Church Universal could benefit from a 'back to basics, getting serious, step by step' approach.

We need devotional/life application.

We need knowledge.

We need relationship, both with Him and with each other.

We need to get off the pew and into the world.


And we NEED all four all at once.

I think we can use both a renewed emphasis on knowledge education and an emphasis on service to push toward better life application and, most importantly, a drive toward relationship with Him.

That sounds really dorky in print. I see multiple emphasis' - but interwoven, not separated as the modern church tends to do. We need compartments - we don't need to be ruled by them.


That's as clear as mud, isn't it?

Actually, you're very clear. As we discussed in other parts of this thread, this is a call for more advanced teaching for those who want it. All of your points should be incorporated into such a class.

My definition of application: "How do I take this teaching and apply it to my life or use it to minister to the world."

[KingsGambit]

I'm sorry Teal but I'm struggling to see exactly what you do want it to look like.

[Teallaura]

I'm sorry Teal but I'm struggling to see exactly what you do want it to look like.

That's (I hope) because I don't want a 'one size fits all' solution. We do that NOW - every new book, new conference, etc - promising that if a church just does X it will be a megachurch in a week.

I want to provide the kind of Christian education where at the end, the student is knowledgeable of Scripture. I want to provide the devotional training to help them apply that knowledge. I want the kind of Christian education that doesn't stay in the classroom - not even while training. And I want education that meets the students where they are - and helps get them where they want to be - and REALLY helps them want the right things (closeness to God, righteousness, etc).

It's a multi-prong problem and it needs a multi-prong approach - but one key element is working with a congregation instead of either force feeding or writing them off.

I want it ALL!