On the Freedom of the Will

[RBerman]

Oh, I did not expect it to address this question directly. The issue of original sin is one that I still remain undecided on, but I agree that the patriarchal representative concept makes most sense to me. Regardless, it seems to me that our sinfulness is set before we are born and is clearly not something we have any control over. I can't understand how we are held responsible for something that we did not (and could not) choose.

Well, that's because you appear to define responsibility in terms of whether you chose to be sinful. I don't see the Bible ever establishing responsibility in those terms. It smells like a philosophical construct.

[Carrikature]

Well, that's because you appear to define responsibility in terms of whether you chose to be sinful. I don't see the Bible ever establishing responsibility in those terms. It smells like a philosophical construct.

I can accept that I am sinful because I act against God. I can't accept being held accountable if this was not under my control. If this is not how responsibility is established, then the concept of Christ's death is lost on me.

[RBerman]

I can accept that I am sinful because I act against God. I can't accept being held accountable if this was not under my control. If this is not how responsibility is established, then the concept of Christ's death is lost on me.

You should accept whatever can be defended from Scripture. This would not be the first thing that you had to take on faith, would it?

Romans 9:19-21

You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"

[Carrikature]

But this is just to general to plug in any specific set of moral behaviors. In higher primates and humans totalitarian behavior, often furthered by very cruel means, helps survival and cohesion. Rape may be presently looked down upon yet it probably was necessary for survival in our ancient past. That that brings up another problem - perhaps it will be again necessary in the future. We would have no way of knowing what future behaviors would optimize survival. The "good for the species" is just too vague...

Of course it's general, it's a rough draft at best. It may be that the specific morals do change over time as the species 'matures'. Hard to say.

You should accept whatever can be defended from Scripture. This would not be the first thing that you had to take on faith, would it?

Romans 9:19-21

You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"

The problem is that there is so much back and forth, especially when it comes to Calvinism. Both sides will have their scripture, and both sides will attempt to poke holes in the other's framework. What you suggest sounds legitimate, but I'm not yet convinced.

[RBerman]

The problem is that there is so much back and forth, especially when it comes to Calvinism. Both sides will have their scripture, and both sides will attempt to poke holes in the other's framework. What you suggest sounds legitimate, but I'm not yet convinced.

I can live with that. Keep studying and praying.

[Carrikature]

I can live with that. Keep studying and praying.