An Open Challenge to Norman Geisler

[Chrawnus]

I was given a challenge to be insulting. I still don't like it and I doubt I'll ever be any good at it.

Are you insinuating that you weren't a passive-aggressive hypocrite before that challenge?

[Teluog]

I don't get Sarah's point. She was "challenged" to insult? What does that mean? That the necessary opportunity came up where an insult was necessary? Which is also the same thing she is arguing against? Does not JPH use insults when necessary?

[Rational Gaze]

Guys. You're expecting consistency.

[ukchristian28]

Well, I've spent many years in churches and with Christians to know that his Insults for Christ paradigm would be rejected by virtually every one of them. Nope, the onus is not on me; you're going have to do the convincing. He can't even get Licona to side with him on it

That is rather disapointing. As someone else pointed out that is nothing more than an appeal to popularity. That is no more valid than pointing to ratings on a Youtube video of someone arguing for a particular position and saying that the truth of what they are saying established because they got 1000 likes and only 150 dislikes. You can "prove" all kinds of things with reasoning like that, There are more theists than atheists in the world, therefore theism must be true. Christianity is the largest religion in the world, that means its true. Appealing to popularity is a fallacy, not an argument.

Maybe you could also demonstrate how Licona has refuted what Holding has said on the subject.

Also as someone else has already pointed out, J.P Holding has already fulfilled his burden with the article. If you want to maintain that he's wrong you need to counter it with equally strong scholarship not simply say "well, most Christians don't agree, so there".

[Kristian Joense]

I am sure that J.P Holding accepts the existence of this "Christian ethic" you are talking about Ed, at least not as you define it. I think the wording of such a debate would need to be something along the lines of "is using insults in public dialogue when dealing with foolish arguments (either by believers or non-believers) consistent with how Jesus and the Apostles dealt with their opponents?" Or possibly, "is it ever ethical for Christians to use insults in public discourse?"

The Christian ethic you speak of can be contended for by you in the debate but I don't think it can be assumed from the outset.

I think J.P Holding should consider accepting this debate challenge. It would be most interesting to listen to.

Is there a "not" missing there between the "I am" and "sure"?

[jpholding]

I wonder if we should publish a Holy Bible: Friendly Translation, where we reconstruct any instances of riposte with something lovely and fluffy:"

That would the CMV (Carl Medearis Version).

[ukchristian28]

Is there a "not" missing there between the "I am" and "sure"?

Yes there was.

[Raphael]

For real? Congratulations!!! (I'm assuming congratulations are in order.)

Sorry Moreta, I was going to reply to this, but the thread closed itself, and then I forgot once it reopened.

Anyhow, yes. The due date is May 5.

[Dee Dee Warren]

JP, sorry I forgot to answer. The classes that Dr. White taught are listed in the link that I gave. He was a critical textual consultant for the NASB. Seriously, IMHO anyone who doubts his doctorate levels qualifications is either ignorant of his body of work, has an agenda based upon dislike of the man, or is dumb as a rock.


Yes, Jaltus had a problem with his doctorate. And Jaltus is wrong. I argued that to Jaltus to his face, and since that time, I am even more strident in saying he is wrong. Jaltus candidly stated that he is biased by extreme personal dislike of the man.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Still waiting for how much Sarah weighs.

[ukchristian28]

JP, sorry I forgot to answer. The classes that Dr. White taught are listed in the link that I gave. He was a critical textual consultant for the NASB. Seriously, IMHO anyone who doubts his doctorate levels qualifications is either ignorant of his body of work, has an agenda based upon dislike of the man, or is dumb as a rock.

I think J.P was correct in saying that if someone has a Th.d from a non-accredited college they need to prove that the education they receieved there was of a decent standard. I think what dizzle has posted above would count as such evidence.

[jpholding]

J.P I wanted to ask, have you ever thought of getting a cat?

Not really no. I'm not that hungry.

But for the record, Cocoa shows little interest in cats and would probably ignore any we had.

[Manwë Súlimo]

I'm sorry, I can't take Nick seriously with his girly pony accoutrements.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I can't take Manwe seriously because he's a horny doofus.

And we need to get a pic up again of when he had an awesome avatar.

[jpholding]

JP, sorry I forgot to answer. The classes that Dr. White taught are listed in the link that I gave. He was a critical textual consultant for the NASB. Seriously, IMHO anyone who doubts his doctorate levels qualifications is either ignorant of his body of work, has an agenda based upon dislike of the man, or is dumb as a rock.

Shrug. I'll just stay on the fence for now. Eventually I'll have the need to test that myself when I deal with TULIP again. I would have been a lot more impressed with him had he not made some of the mistakes he did back then when debating me.