Discussing Dispensationalism

[Manwë Súlimo]

Awesome Things To Do If You Have Mutant Powers: Mess with Dispensationalists:

This is perhaps the greatest thing I've seen since the Great Tribulation of 70AD.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Stick around at least and see what is being said. If you have books to recommend on dispensationalism, as I am reading them, please share them. (Okay. I have taken a slight break to read the birthday gift of "Mr. Monk on the Road." I recommend for Preterism reading "Last Days Madness" and DeeDeeWarren's "Matthew 24 Commentary."

[theblueprint_Ni]

I'll be around. Come to think of it, I haven't read any published books devoted to the topic of eschatology so there's none I could really recommend to you. I can't say I'll have any time to spend on picking one up either, at least not right now. I've got too much reading to do as it is. If I'm not too burned out by then, maybe the winter or summer, who knows.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

If there's something you'd like to see discussed based on your reading, let me know. Maybe I can get it in sometime.

[One Bad Pig]

Nick,

I came across a translation of a commentary on Revelation by Victorinus which I thought you might find interesting.

Saint Victorinus was bishop of the Pannonian city of Poetovio (or Pettavium; now the modern Ptui, Slovenia) in the second half of the third century. He is described by St Jerome as the first Latin exegete of the Bible. Of the many works which Victorinus produced, however, we have mere fragments of a very few, and only his Commentary on the Apocalypse (In Apocalypsin) is complete. This commentary on the Book of Revelation is also the earliest surviving complete one, which was written by Victorinus during the reign of the Emperor Gallienus (258-260). During the Great Persecution of Diocletan in 304, the Holy Martyr Victorinus joined the chorus of Saints.

Jerome is responsible for an extensive revision of Victorinus' commentary, dated to 398, which he particularly undertook at the request of a friend to adjust Victorinus' commentary in those verses and passages displaying interpretations which were taken to be chiliastic/millennialistic, a theological opinion which had since been rejected by the Church at large (notice the statement in the Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381: "of Whose Kingdom there shall be no end"—a creedal rejection of chiliasm). Consequently, essentially two versions of Victorinus' commentary have come down to us: his original and the Hieronymian edition. I have undertaken to translate Victorinus' original and only Jerome's letter to Anatolius (which serves as a prologue to Jerome's version) and Jerome's ending of the work (which replaces Victorinus' commentary on chapters 20 and 21 of the Apocalypse).

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Quite!

[theblueprint_Ni]

I keep seeing "Nick" and thinking you're talking to me. I was wondering how you knew my name. I'm guessing that's your name, Phoenix? And I appreciate the openness for discussion.

I did watch that video btw, and yes, I did laugh. I love how the dispensationalist (if you can call him that) is a blue collared, backwater, junior-college educated ignoramus, and the preterist is a white collared, handsome, regenerate version of Christopher Hitchens. I wonder if the producer inserted any elements of bias and prejudice into his film? lol!

[Teluog]

I keep seeing "Nick" and thinking you're talking to me. I was wondering how you knew my name. I'm guessing that's your name, Phoenix? And I appreciate the openness for discussion.

I did watch that video btw, and yes, I did laugh. I love how the dispensationalist (if you can call him that) is a blue collared, backwater, junior-college educated ignoramus, and the preterist is a white collared, handsome, regenerate version of Christopher Hitchens. I wonder if the producer inserted any elements of bias and prejudice into his film? lol!

Eh, I don't know if the regenerated Chris Hitchens is a preterist, but it is produced by Lutheran Satire which has a Youtube channel full of videos like this one.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

So I also read Ryrie's Dispensationalism and found it extremely lacking. Ryrie just regularly states that his view is the only one that can make sense of X. Not even a defense of the rapture anywhere in there either.

Now I'm on Gentry and Ice's "The Great Tribulation: Past or Future?"

I'm starting Ice's side on page 69 and seeing the following after saying that there are implications that follow if the Great Tribulation is past.

The rapture is impossible.
Premillennialism is false.
Israel has no future national blessing.
Israel today has no prophetic significance.
Our current state is the millennium or new Heaven and new Earth
No future Antichrist and false prophet
No tribulation events such as two witnesses.
The view of millions of Christians would be different and their view of the future significantly changed.

The only one that seems worthwhile is the fifth one seeing as I do not believe we are in a new Heaven and new Earth as I do believe there is a goal to history and there will be an end put to sin someday.

However, look at the rest of the list. The ramifications are that dispensationalism is false. Nothing beyond that. However, if my view is true, I would like to point out some ramifications.

There is no Jew nor Greek but all can equally come to Christ.
There is no need to fear a coming storm.
There is no need to listen to doomsday prophets.
There is no need to panic at the mention of world peace.
There is no need to fear any treaty with Israel.
There is no need to think the fate of the world rests on national Israel.
There is no need to fear being Left Behind.
There is no need to want all Jews to gather together for a national bloodbath in Israel.
There is no need to send funds that could go to evangelism to work on building temples and breeding red cows.
There is no need to have a newspaper to understand the Bible.

There is need to learn to study the Scriptures biblically within their Jewish context.
There is need to do evangelism that we might speed the second advent.
There is need to always denounce the Campings of the world.
There is need to work towards world peace.
There is need to care for our environment since this is God's world for us.

Just looking at Ice's list, it seems the worst thing to him is that dispensationalism wouldn't be true. Personally, I would hope many of us would love it if the events described in Revelation were not future and not literal, as I don't. Maybe for some reason Ice does want all of that to be true. Oh well.

[Teluog]

In my opinion, the only one's who will be left behind are Brony lovers.

[One Bad Pig]

In my opinion, the only one's who will be left behind are Brony lovers.

Your opinion is wrong, and you're Canadian - but I repeat myself.