Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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Philandro Castile verdict
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostIts definitely sending the signal that 'You can do almost everything completely right, but if the officer feels your hand is where it shouldn't be, then in a split second he can, with full legal justification, unload his entire clip of ammunition into you and then later yell at your girlfriend for trying to record him'
But I also think police officer screwed up, yes. Which means both parties screwed up!Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostPeople need to learn how to interact with the police.
The first rule is to always cooperate. Always follow his instructions, and don't try to argue your case on the spot. As the saying goes, "Save it for the judge."
The second rule is to always tell the officer what you're going to do before you do it and wait for his assent before you proceed. Even in a simple traffic stop, I'll tell the officer, "My license is in my right front pocket, and my registration is in the glove box." Then I wait for his permission before I move a muscle.
It's in your best interest to make the officer feel safe, and one way to accomplish that is to allow him to control the situation.
Originally posted by tabibito View PostSEVEN shots?
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostBut the problem is, it appears that the guy did do all of this.
What does the number of shots matter? When you shoot, you're already committed to killing someone. Whether they shot once or seven shots doesn't matter; heck, if you believe the person was dangerous enough to shoot, then you probably should be shooting multiple times to make sure absolutely sure they still down. The question is whether they should have shot at all. If it was correct to shoot, whether they shot once or seven times is irrelevant. If it was incorrect to shoot... then it's still irrelevant because they shouldn't have shot at all.
It matters because it indicates something about the officer - a guy in a car is not still advancing so unloading a clip is probably not justified."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostI agree. And it was the officer's job to tell him exactly what to do. Given that he gave two contradictory orders beforehand he should've specifically told castille to keep his hands where he can see them when he was informed of the gun. Instead he let castille think he was complying then shot him. I usually give cops the benefit of the doubt, but up to a point. You can't just say you were scared of being shot as an excuse to kill innocent people. There has to be reasonable circumstances under which the cop would feel it was necessary to shoot and this doesn't come even remotely close."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIt matters because it indicates something about the officer - a guy in a car is not still advancing so unloading a clip is probably not justified.Last edited by myth; 06-18-2017, 06:23 PM."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostPlease consider that I can fire 7 rounds from my duty weapon in about 3 seconds, probably under 3 seconds. Now consider how long it would take a stressed out human to realize the 'threat' has been stopped, and decide to stop. 1-1.5 seconds, maybe? It's possible anywhere from 2-4 of those rounds were fired in the time it took Yanez to make the decision to stop shooting.
But I am unclear on your point - are you stating you can pull the trigger to successively fire 7 times in 3 seconds or that the weapon discharges that quickly? The only reason I ask is the successive pulls may (or may not) be significant. I presumed the former - which is what brings the continuation of fire into question (for someone expert enough to evaluate it - that would not be me)."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by myth View PostPlease consider that I can fire 7 rounds from my duty weapon in about 3 seconds, probably under 3 seconds. Now consider how long it would take a stressed out human to realize the 'threat' has been stopped, and decide to stop. 1-1.5 seconds, maybe? It's possible anywhere from 2-4 of those rounds were fired in the time it took Yanez to make the decision to stop shooting.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Postgiven that even a fatally wounded person can still be extremely dangerous"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by myth View PostI've already addressed this in my original comment. I put examples of what the officer SHOULD have said in all caps, and provided three examples of better commands to give."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by myth View PostSource (same as OP): http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...rriage-justice
Based on a cursory reading of the article OP linked, my take away was that Yanez thought Castille was reaching for his gun and gave verbal commands for him not to reach for it, when what he meant (and should have said), is something more along the lines of "PLACE YOUR HANDS ON THE STEERING WHEEL" or "DO NOT MOVE" or "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS". Castille apparently understood the literal meaning of the officer's instruction not to reach for his gun, and assumed it was ok to keep reaching for his license, because he wasn't reaching for his gun. He apparently did not consider that, after being told more than once not to reach for the gun, the officer might be continuing to tell him that because he thought he was still reaching for the gun. Yes, Castille and Reynolds both told Yanez that he wasn't reaching for the gun. But I don't know how much impact saying that would have had on me if I was in the officer's shoes (quite frankly, saying that you're not doing something as you in fact do that very thing is a cheap distraction tactic, and I'd be wary of that).
Looks like there were mistakes on both sides of the equation here. Any reasonable gun owner should exercise a little caution and be mindful of your body movements during a police encounter. It's just common sense. I do think the officer is more responsible for the outcome than Castille is, so please don't think I'm trying to lay the blame on Castille. I have some very serious concerns about the actions Yanez took (and I'd like to hear from the other officer present).
But my take on this is that the jury balked at convicting a man of a criminal offense when he likely believed (wrongly or not) that another man was reaching for a gun. I will not render an opinion here as to whether Yanez should have been convicted of a criminal offense (because I don't know enough about the case, and MN state law).
Actually I would have had my hands on the wheel when I told the cop I had a gun and not moved until he told me I could.Last edited by Sparko; 06-19-2017, 07:35 AM.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI'd just like to point out that in Denmark we don't need 'how to survive an encounter with the police' courses. Our police officers aren't quite as trigger happy.
That's one advantage of living in a country where citizens don't have guns.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20170501/dan...-in-copenhagen
https://www.thelocal.dk/20170403/thr...rk-supermarket
https://www.thelocal.dk/20161123/two...store-shooting
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Originally posted by myth View PostBased on a cursory reading of the article OP linked.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostBut I am unclear on your point - are you stating you can pull the trigger to successively fire 7 times in 3 seconds or that the weapon discharges that quickly? The only reason I ask is the successive pulls may (or may not) be significant. I presumed the former - which is what brings the continuation of fire into question (for someone expert enough to evaluate it - that would not be me).I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostNot really, your original comment makes it sound like they're both equally guilty and doesn't take a side either way.
What you and many others here probably want from me is a 'slam-dunk' comment condemning the officer's actions. I'll call a spade a spade, but I'd only do that publicly if I'm pretty darned sure. In this case, I don't know quite enough to go that far. Take that for what you will."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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