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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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John 3:16

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  • John 3:16

    John 3:16King James Version (KJV)

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    16 “For God loved the world in this way:[a] He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

    The word in Greek is monogenes. In the case of Jesus, it means One and Only, or Unique, one of a kind.

    If Jesus was speaking Hebrew or Aramaic what word would He use and what would it mean?

    I'm dealing with a Muslim who is trying to save the Qur'an because the Allah of the Qur'an thought "begotten" meant a sexual union between God and Mary, Jesus being the result. The Muslim' response was that Jesus didn't speak Greek (which is debatable.)

    Thank you.

  • #2
    That is a good question. In just now checking it. The Septuagint translates the Hebrew יחיד yachiyd [Strong's H3173] 4 times by the Greek μονογενής monogenes [Strong's G3439]. Ref. Judges 11:34; Psalm 22:20; Psalm 25:16; and Psalm 35:17. A parallel passage to Hebrews 11:17 referring Issac as Abraham's μονογενής unique son would be Genesis 22:2 where it uses the Hebrew yachiyd. But there the Septuagint translators used the Greek ἀγαπητός agapetos [Strong's G27] meaning beloved.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/jesus_monogenes.html
    Last edited by 37818; 06-18-2017, 11:14 AM.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Christian3 View Post




      I'm dealing with a Muslim who is trying to save the Qur'an because the Allah of the Qur'an thought "begotten" meant a sexual union between God and Mary, Jesus being the result. The Muslim' response was that Jesus didn't speak Greek (which is debatable.)

      Thank you.
      Scripture tells us that Jesus spent some time in the town of Capernaum (Matthew 4:13, 8:5; Mark 1:21, 2:1; Luke 4:31, 7:1), located on the shore of the Sea of Galilee and one of the ten cities on the eastern frontier of the Roman Empire in the southeastern Levant known as the Decapolis. The cities of the Decapolis are known to be centers of Greek and Roman culture in the area and the ruins of the synagogue had inscriptions written in both Greek and Aramaic indicating that many of the Jews there primarily spoke Greek. While this doesn't mean that Jesus was fluent in Greek it is highly likely he knew a good number of Greek words sort of like how English speakers living near the Mexican border pick up many Spanish words.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        That is a good question. In just now checking it. The Septuagint translates the Hebrew יחיד yachiyd [Strong's H3173] 4 times by the Greek μονογενής monogenes [Strong's G3439]. Ref. Judges 11:34; Psalm 22:20; Psalm 25:16; and Psalm 35:17. A parallel passage to Hebrews 11:17 referring Issac as Abraham's μονογενής unique son would be Genesis 22:2 where it uses the Hebrew yachiyd. But there the Septuagint translators used the Greek ἀγαπητός agapetos [Strong's G27] meaning beloved.

        https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

        http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/jesus_monogenes.html
        Thank you.

        The Muslims' position on this is ridiculous.

        John 3:16King James Version (KJV)

        Jesus says:

        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

        The Muslim argument would look like this:

        From Jesus: "Listen up folks, my father God and my mother God got together sexually and produced another God besides Allah and that is me. :)"

        And from a Jew no less.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Scripture tells us that Jesus spent some time in the town of Capernaum (Matthew 4:13, 8:5; Mark 1:21, 2:1; Luke 4:31, 7:1), located on the shore of the Sea of Galilee and one of the ten cities on the eastern frontier of the Roman Empire in the southeastern Levant known as the Decapolis. The cities of the Decapolis are known to be centers of Greek and Roman culture in the area and the ruins of the synagogue had inscriptions written in both Greek and Aramaic indicating that many of the Jews there primarily spoke Greek. While this doesn't mean that Jesus was fluent in Greek it is highly likely he knew a good number of Greek words sort of like how English speakers living near the Mexican border pick up many Spanish words.
          I think there is good reason to believe Jesus knew Greek.

          http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...eak-greek.html

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          • #6
            let's see.... Jesus could walk on water, turn water into wine, heal the sick, raise the dead, was the incarnation of God, but he couldn't speak Greek?

            I am pretty sure Jesus could speak any language he wanted to.

            For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest


            otherwise how could he have written the King James Bible 2000 years ago?


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              let's see.... Jesus could walk on water, turn water into wine, heal the sick, raise the dead, was the incarnation of God, but he couldn't speak Greek?

              I am pretty sure Jesus could speak any language he wanted to.

              For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest


              otherwise how could he have written the King James Bible 2000 years ago?

              The language is Greek to Him?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                The language is Greek to Him?
                I haven't run into Muslim apologists very often, but they tend to make fundy atheists look reasonable in comparison.

                IMO, they're better off sticking with the sword.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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