JFK murder reexamined

[Augustine2004]

Marke, welcome to TWeb and this thread.

LBJ and Mac Wallace are two names definitely worth looking into for motive and evidence. Mac Wallace's fingerprints were lifted from the Texas Book Depository Bldg. in 1963 but not confirmed until the 1990s.

Wow, more than one fingerprint? Any reference to the confirmation?

Mac Wallace killed LBJs sister's boyfriend in cold blood, was caught, tried and convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to 5 years probation in an Austin, Texas court with LBJs lawyer defending Wallace. Many more facts are a matter of public record. LBJ was under investigation by Congress that same week and there were more skeletons in his closet than many in Washington wanted to come out, including J. Edgar Hoover. Some also who simply were under subjection to Hoover based on the knowledge Hoover had on them in their personal lives, went along with the coverup for personal selfish reasons.

My opinion, given above, is still that LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassinationdoes a pretty good job of establishing LBJ's guilt.

[marke]

I haven't read that but I believe LBJ is the mind behind the plan. I was in the library several months ago and decided to see what the US News & World Report (I think it was that mag) had to say the days after the assassination. The Nov 25 issue (2 days after the assassination) had nothing on the assassination yet (it obviously went to press before the event) but the headline article and something like 15 pages of print were about the Congressional investigation of Bobby Baker and LBJ and crew. That definitely goes to motive. JFK was about to feed LBJ to the dogs through RFK but LBJ was not the only crook whose crimes were being looked into or might would come out in the investigation. I believe J. Hoover also had things to hide as well as probably many others, but who knows? I read over some of your earlier posts. I believe you are right on target.

[Augustine2004]

The Billie Sol Estes scandal was also ongoing.

One of the first things LBJ as president was to stop the investigations of the Baker and Estes scandals. Anyway, it's remarkable how quickly and how soon after the assassination they were wound up.

[Augustine2004]

Thursday I learnt that Lisa Pease, so prominent in the ctka.net website, had published a scathing review of Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and their Vision for World Peace by Peter Janney
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/Pease_Ja...;s_Mosaic.html

Also at that time Peter Janney's rebuttal was published--I'm sorry, TWeb does not allow links to a particular website. (That was where I learnt of Lisa's hatchet job.) I have now read both Lisa's review and the rebuttal. I find it hard to believe that as Janney portrays Lisa, she could be as pathological as liars can be, given her earlier CTKA corpus; but I am leaning to believing Janney more, much more, anyway.

[Xru]

Thursday I learnt that Lisa Pease, so prominent in the ctka.net website, had published a scathing review of Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and their Vision for World Peace by Peter Janney
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/Pease_Ja...;s_Mosaic.html

Also at that time Peter Janney's rebuttal was published--I'm sorry, TWeb does not allow links to a particular website. (That was where I learnt of Lisa's hatchet job.) I have now read both Lisa's review and the rebuttal. I find it hard to believe that as Janney portrays Lisa, she could be as pathological as liars can be, given her earlier CTKA corpus; but I am leaning to believing Janney more, much more, anyway.

Hi 2004 . . .. Glad to see you posting again in the JFK murder reexamined. I'll be catching up on my reading of the thread in the coming days.

I've been thinking about the stuff I've seen on this thread and I'm more inclined than ever to view JFK's murder as a conspiracy. I'm too frazzled now to write about it but will maybe tomorrow. Later.

[Augustine2004]

Charles Burris in effect recommends a review of Mary's Mosaic
http://theamericanchronicle.blogspot...ys-mosaic.html
and a book
http://www.amazon.com/Regicide-Offic...regory+douglas

No plan now to buy that book, but if someone wants me to review it . . .

[Xru]

Charles Burris in effect recommends a review of Mary's Mosaic
http://theamericanchronicle.blogspot...ys-mosaic.html
and a book
http://www.amazon.com/Regicide-Offic...regory+douglas

No plan now to buy that book, but if someone wants me to review it . . .

Sure!

[Augustine2004]

I'm reading Final Judgment by Michael Collins Piper. About 1/2 thru. I will post a commentary after finishing the book.

[Augustine2004]

Final Judgment: The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy [ISBN: 0-935036-47-4] by Michael Collins Piper.

I loaned a friend my copy of LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination. In return he loaned me that book headlined above.

After the few paragraphs following this one is a box ("Box") that has notes I wrote for the friend and also for those of you who has his or her own copy of the Piper book; anyone of you who doesn't have the book, the box might still be interesting to skim through.

Let me now address the cries of anti-Semitism that have arisen over Michael Collins Piper's book, probably partly because one thesis of the Final Judgment theory is that David Ben-Gurion ordered the Mossad's crack team of assassins to kill JFK. I am neutral in the Arab-Israeli fued, only concerned with ascertaining the truth. If I think the Piper book is well documented and argued enough so that we should give some credence to the involvement of Ben-Gurion and the Mossad in the assassination, I would say so, regardless of what my feelings for Israel the modern state-nation are or how people will react.

Summary & last thoughts after finishing the book. The book shows that organized crime in the 20th Century was not just the Mafia or Costra Nostra. Meyer Lansky was a Jew who was much involved in Israeli affairs even before it became a state. Not only that, he created an organization that the book calls the Meyer Lansky Organized Crime Syndicate. It actually subsumed the Mafia and the Costra Nostra, and was international. An empire that covered the entire globe. In an earlier post, I suggested LBJ was like Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' arch enemy. I now rather think Lansky was much more the Professor Moriarty.

So, I think Nelson, the author of LBJ, neglected Meyer Lansky's involvement in the JFK assassination and the RFK one too much. It doesn't matter why Nelson failed, if he did--did he want to make LBJ's role more prominent by ignoring Lansky nearly totally, or he simply failed to see how important Lansky was? Some other explanation, such as fear? And I don't think David Ben-Gurion was as important as Michael Collins Piper, the author of Final Judgment, made out. Even if Ben-Gurion did order the Mossad to assassinate JFK, the Mossad still had to get Lansky involved, I think.

The book did surprise me that Lansky was so powerful. Much more the Dr Moriarty than LBJ was! Lansky actually controlled Thomas E. Dewey, for one thing. But Lansky's style was that of a partnership building manager, I think. So I find it still possible that Lansky simply let LBJ do most of the top-level planning and management of the JFK assassination and coverup, but he did help when asked. Why not? If things went wrong, Lansky could see it to that LBJ took the fall, if necessary, perhaps. Perhaps Lansky delegated work to a great network of people and did that very well. There's a passage in the book that could be applied to LBJ as well as one of Lansky's underling: "All of Trafficante's anti-Castro operations in league with the CIA were being conducted with Lansky's approval and under Lansky's watchful eye." That is, "LBJ's planning and execution of the JFK assassination were being conducted with Lansky's approval and under Lansky's watchful eye. That goes for the coverup as well." It seems possible that LBJ had secret meetings with Lansky or his underlings so as to coordinate Lansky's actions and LBJ's.

While Michael Collins Piper did provide much documentation to show LBJ's involvement and its extent or importance, such as the huge differences in administrative policies between LBJ and JFK, it seems to me that Piper ranked LBJ too low in the assassination hierarchy. It is true that LBJ as President appears to have taken care that his administration policies not tick off JFK's enemies too much, but every President would have to seek to balance competing interests against one another in any case.

Why is my focus on individuals more than organizations such as Iran's SAVAK, the CIA, and the anti-Castro Cuban groups, whereas Piper's focus seems to be more on the organizations? Because a group of partners that were equal in leadership ability and power is just too improbable in my eyes. Every individual is unique. Rather, we should expect to see an hierarchy with one person at the top. Who emerges in the book much more than any other is Meyer Lansky, with his global organization.

So, I think the two books are complementary, though I doubt even then we have yet all the material for understanding the truth totally and accurately.

Box

page xv "It is the little-discussed Permindex connection to the JFK assassination . . . the final proof that Israel's Mossad was at the center of the assassination conspiracy." I don't recall anything about Permindex in the LBJ book. Wikipedia does have an article on Permindex, see especially this section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permind...on_allegations

page 3The book quotes a former Congressman, Rep. Paul Findley of Illinois, "Certainly, the Mossad possessed the resources to carry out an assassination almost any place on earth." A problem with that is that Lee Harvey Oswald did not as far as I know have any Mossad connection. Nor did Jack Ruby. And the massive coverup couldn't have been wholly a Mossad operation; the FBI and the CIA would have to be cooperating with Mossad at its direction rather than LBJ, for one thing. Who took on the job of looking at the photographic evidence, from Altgens' snaps to the Zapruder film, deciding to suppress the evidence, alter it, or leave it unchanged?

pages 14-15"Bush Targeted by Mossad" Let's see what we get here. Bush is of course George Herbert Walker Bush, the 41st president; Final Judgment was published during his administration. First, a former Mossad agent, Victor Ostrovsky, who published a book see this article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_...y_of_Deception

Second and third, we have Findley and fellow US Representative "Pete" McCloskey of California. I found a report by Findley

http://www.wrmea.org/component/conte...president.html

that may interest some of you. McCloskey and Findley are (were?) on the same page, more or less.

Now, we have Bush safe and sound as of today (July 7, 2012). Suppose there was Israeli plotting to assassinate him anyway. Why did it fail to come to fruition, if such a word may be used here? Why may I not cite this as evidence of the negative sort that most any plot to kill a sitting US president probably requires a ramroad like LBJ?

page 15It wasn't Findley, but Ostrovsky who authored By Way of Deception; I think it was just sloppy writing, not wrong scholarship, though.

page 17 "The tentacles of the Mossad do reach far and wide--even into the depths of the US State Department." No. I mean, that may be true, but it doesn't mean anything really without plenty of documented details and nothing left out that may be relevant.

same page"If in 1991, why not in 1963?" That is clearly a fallacy. Why would not the Mossad have changed so much over nearly 30 years that such an argument should be rejected on that basis? Again, we need plenty of documented details, with nothing left out. Mossad today compared to Mossad in 1962 and 1963. Do we really know the Mossad of today? How motivated is it as compared to in 1963? Besides, why not cite LBJ as the chief difference between the times after the assassination on the one hand and those of the events leading up to the assassination on the other?

I think I should skip chapter 3. What skepticism I have re the notion of false flag operations is this close to being nil.

After reading chapter 4, I marvel once again how JFK had managed to incur so much bitter enmity among so many powerful people. The CIA, the FBI, the Israeli crowd, organized crime, the anti-Castro crowd and heaven knows what else. Death wish, huh?

Chapter 5 "Genesis: JFK's Secret War with Israel"--I didn't know clearly before that Israel had been working on nuclear weapons throughout the Einsenhower Administration and the JFK one. After the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK understandably would be opposed. That in turn would stoke Israeli hatred and fears. I don't know that the author of LBJ was really aware of that possibility but rated it as less important than many others. All I can say, it's possible.

page 45 (Chapter 5, see above) ". . . Israel would use its immense political power--especially through its lobby in Washington--to force the United States to accede to Israel's nuclear intentions." That struck me as revelatory of the US-Israeli relationship even today, not just in the nuclear policy area.

Further on page 46 is this statement: ". . . the ties between Israel and the CIA were quite intimate--perhaps too intimate in too many, many ways." Possibly an exaggeration, but it does suggest the book LBJ neglected the Israeli factor too much.

page 47I didn't know JFK wanted to establish a policy regarding the Palestinian refugee problem and that Israeli leader David Ben-Gurion hated that. Maybe he was pathological as far as Israel's security was concerned. Vowing in public to fight down to the last man is simply not reasonable--such an extremity would mean the destruction of Israel or of its people. Maybe I just don't understand Ben-Gurion's insecurity--or did the book misrepresent that?

page 63 So LBJ was an early supporter of Israeli interests, as early as 1957 if not earlier! I wonder why. Considering the kind of person LBJ was revealed in LBJ to be,the reason must be strictly from a power standpoint. In LBJ's calculus, Israel was a good ally--better curry favor from it. My guess anyway.

same page "Nasser's assessment [America's sudden shift of policy toward what Israel wanted in MidEast affairs since the assassination] was on target. According to intelligence historian Richard Deacon, Johnson's new policy was keeping in line not only with Israel's demands, but those of Israel's friends at the CIA: . . . " In support of that declaration, Piper gave this citation: Richard Deacon's The Israeli Secret Service (New York: Taplinger Publishing Co. Inc., 1978) p.179. [endnote number 168 in the Piper book]

Wow.

page 64So Hubert Humphrey, LBJ's vice president, had ties to Meyer Lansky! Perhaps to be expected considering the portrait of LBJ painted by the book LBJ. ". . . Lansky and his partners in Israel [held a jackpot ticket for a President (LBJ) and a Vice President (HHH)--what a dream!]"

page 65Foreign aid to Israel jumped from $40 million in JFK's last fiscal year (1964) to 130m in FY1966.

page 66" [Author Stephen] Green summarizes the massive extent of Johnson's giveaways: 'Seventy percent of all U.S. official assistance to Israel has been military. America has given Israel over $17 billion in military aid since 1946, . . . over 99 percent [of which] has been provided since 1965.'" Palestine: Downtrodden Forever!

page 68Huh?? This seems to be saying that because Israel put its interests first, with the USA compelled to follow Israel, America perforce had to withdraw from Vietnam, because that was not in Israel's best interests.

page 69"Israel and its covert allies did indeed have a messiah in Lyndon Baines Johnson." I have only a foggy idea what Piper had in mind when he wrote that. I suspect he does not really understand what "messiah" means. But I have the impression that Israel had a great deal of control over LBJ's administration. Brr!

page 131According to the section titled,"Stalking Lansky Through Marcello," it was Justice Department standard procedure to first convict a mob boss' underlings; after that, go after the boss himself. According to a quotation attributed to Seth Kantor, acquaintance and biographer of Jack Ruby, RFK was following that procedure to get Lansky via a prosecution of Carlos Marcello. It's not clear to me whether RFK did know Lansky and his status in the organized crime world. I guess not, based on RFK's not saying anything explosive in public about Lansky. But your guess is as good as mine. However, do look at the next note:

page 138"All of Trafficante's anti-Castro operations in league with the CIA were being conducted with Lansky's approval and under Lansky's watchful eye." See last note above. That might be how LBJ did his "work"--with Lansky's approval and under his watchful eye.

page 214Angelton was reported to have denied ever seeing E. Howard Hunt. That does seem fishy in view of that Hunt was "the chief political liaison to the anti-Castro" Cubans involved in the planning for the Bay of Pigs operation.

pages 216-225Maybe there were several operations involved in the JFK assassination. In particular, one was ostensibly a false flag operation aimed at shocking the public into demanding that Cuba be invaded and Fidel Castro removed from power. An assassination attempt was to be made and evidence planted that pointed to Cuba or Castro. Oswald may have been roped into that operation. It may seem unnecessarily complicated, but as pointed out before, coverups can use dummy evidence as much as destroyed or hidden evidence. Moreover, people had to be misled into participating in any plot to assassinate the president, Oswald for example. Note that perhaps he was not intended to be the only patsy. E. Howard Hunt may have been another. Still another person could be yet another, and so on. In particular, as the real plot to assassinate JFK moved toward his destiny with Death, many people had to be hoodwinked. The anti-Castro Cubans in particular had to be blocked from seeing what was going on.

Well, we'll never know the whole of what happened in Dallas that day in infamy. How many operations were going on, for example?

page 221 (retrograde)John Tower's fatal accident, Wikipedia says, was not an explosion but determined to be merely mechanical failure.

page 226The use of false flag operations is said to be a standard method of operation of the Mossad. But it is so for the CIA and the FBI. Maybe the KGB, too.

page 227"The bottom line is this: at all critical times when Oswald was being set up as the patsy--and following the assassination itself--the fine hand of Israel's Mossad and its allies in the CIA is evident." Heh, like we have all the facts. What about Meyer Lansky's fine hand, for one thing?

page 294Not only do we have some evidence George Herbert Walker Bush was in Dallas November 22, 1963, he as Director of CIA (1976-1977) was in a position to control what CIA would say or not say to the Senate Intelligence Committee. Given the evidence we now have of CIA involvement in the plots to kill JFK and RFK, it is at least suspicious that CIA revelations to the committee were so scant.

[Augustine2004]

There's another Don Adams. Not the Get Smart actor on TV, but a honest-to-goodness FBI agent (now retired for years). Why don't you explore his website adamsjfk.com ? The source of that info I believe to be reliable.

[Augustine2004]

Here Sparko may want to shield his eyes lest he experience overwhelming horror: Conspiracy theories galore (does he not hate them?)

http://www.mentalfloss.com/article/3...could-be-right

[onefour1]

I have read Groden's and Livingston's, "High Treason". A very informative book. I have always found it odd that Nixon could not remember where he was on the day the President was shot. Recently there is a new video suggesting the involvement of George H.W. Bush in the assassination plot. There is a video on Netflix called Dark Legacy and on Youtube called JFK II The Bush Connection that ties George H. W. Bush to many of the suspicious characters of the anti-Castro Cubans. Bush has always come across as a shady character to me and recently he has shown up in another documetary found on Netflix called The Panama Deception which implicates him in other ugly incidents in Panama. It is interesting that Bush's Father was running a bank that was financing the Nazi's during WWII. I will leave the 911 conspiracy of his son to another thread. I don't think the US can afford any more Bush family members in the white house.

[Augustine2004]

http://murderfromwithin.com/ is about a book that was written in 1974 but no attempt was made to mass-market it until about 2 years ago, if I understand correctly. Today is when I first became aware of the book. It seems to be similar to LBJ, the book I reviewed earlier in this thread, but with different evidence.

I have no plans to get the Murder book. Anyone is welcome to review it here.

[Augustine2004]

More evidence that LBJ had a hand in the JFK assassination?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-new-book.html FYI, I do not know enough to evaluate the linked article. I have no plan to review the book. You're welcome to review it here.