Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Bernie Sanders and Religious Exclusivity

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bernie Sanders and Religious Exclusivity

    Can you be a Christian and hold public office?

    The link can be found here.

    -----

    Is it wrong that Christianity is an exclusivist religion? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    In a hearing for Russell Vought recently for office, Senator Bernie Sanders expressed some hostility towards Vought for his position on Christianity. Apparently, Vought holds this really bizarre position. He thinks Christianity is actually true and not only is it true, it's the only true religion and thus all other religions are wrong and will not get you into the grace of God.

    Now to Sanders, this might be news. It's not like this is a new development in Christianity. Christians have held to this belief since the very beginning, even when it led to them being outed by the Roman government and put under all manner of persecution and had them branded as atheists. We have to wonder if this is the first time Sanders had heard about this.

    He's right that while Christianity would be the majority religious belief in America (Or at least claimed) that there are numerous other believers in other religions and no religions here in America. Does this mean that Christians are automatically meant to treat them as lesser citizens. Sanders seems to think this, but on what grounds?

    Let's start with establishing something. Every religious belief is exclusive on some areas. Even a universalist would say that a person who thinks only one way to God is true will still make it to God, they are wrong in holding an exclusivist position. A pluralist will have to essentially change every other religion out there in order to make his pluralist religion true.

    This includes Judaism and Islam as well. Try going to a regular synagogue and saying you're a Jew who accepts Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. See if you're treated as a Jew like everyone else. While there might be some exceptions, many Jews who embrace Jesus as the Messiah are excluded. Islam is often violently exclusive as is seen by many of the terrorist attacks we have going on today.

    This is simply because of logic. All Christians give claims that are truth claims and those claims by nature exclude anything that contradicts them. This is no different from every other field out there. All truth claims do this. If Christianity has it essential that Jesus is the Messiah, then if the claim is true, all religions that disagree are wrong. If Islam were right in that God is a monad and only one in person, then all religions that disagree, like Christianity, are wrong.

    One of the great freedoms we have in this country is the freedom to come together and worship as we see fit and to discuss our religious differences. In the practice of true tolerance, we have it that you can disagree very strongly ideologically, and yet still leave in a spirit of peace and even friendship. These are the discussions we should be having. I have no desire for us to try to establish a theocracy here because it would not be God ruling. It would be some men claiming to rule in the name of God.

    The problem for Sanders is that he's doing the exact thing he condemns. He is saying that if you hold X religious belief, you are not fit for public office. This is a rather exclusionary position and is saying that someone is wrong to hold the religious belief that they do, yet all the while complaining that it's wrong to say another religious belief is wrong. It can't be had both ways.

    Naturally, a Christian who holds public office should care about the freedom and well-being of all of his constituents. This is part of our religion as well. We are not to show favoritism. If a Muslim and a Christian come to trial and the Muslim is in the right, the Christian should back the Muslim. He can disagree with his religion all day long and should, but in this area, the Muslim is in the right.

    Sanders is, unfortunately, being an example of someone who doesn't really understand religions and doesn't see them as truth claims but more as personal preferences. Sadly, a lot of Christians might take the same attitude, but it's not one Christianity has had historically. Part of this is also an example of the great problem we have of religious illiteracy here in the West where many people talk about religion and religions, but they don't really understand them.

    What are we as Christians to do then? We are to teach our people that Christianity is not just a flavor of ice cream that you happen to really like, but making really serious divine claims about everything in reality, and that we are to go and live out those claims. We are to uphold the Kingdom of God in all things, but also to uphold the great love of our neighbor that we are commanded as well. Who knows? Sanders might find that living in a society like that isn't as bad as he thought.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    I dont think the problem is with "exclusivity" itself, it is with what Sanders seems to think "condemns" means. He seems to be taking it as a current condemnation of all other people BY vought himself. Not by the doctrine of the church and in regards to eternal judgment. Sanders forgets or does not know that we are not condemning anyone as far as this life or how we treat anyone. That in fact all mankind is condemned to eternal punishment unless they find Jesus so our "job" is to save them by sharing the gospel, that nothing is lost until they are dead. So we treat them with love and respect, hoping to turn them to Christ, not with contempt or hatred.

    Comment


    • #3
      My take on this is that in keeping with the Golden Rule, I'm willing to say another non-believer stands condemned in my worldview if they asked and I will tolerate and be willing to accept another person saying I stand condemned in their worldview too.

      Comment

      Related Threads

      Collapse

      Topics Statistics Last Post
      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
      14 responses
      75 views
      1 like
      Last Post rogue06
      by rogue06
       
      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
      6 responses
      62 views
      0 likes
      Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
      1 response
      23 views
      0 likes
      Last Post rogue06
      by rogue06
       
      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
      0 responses
      22 views
      2 likes
      Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
      Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
      7 responses
      63 views
      0 likes
      Last Post whag
      by whag
       
      Working...
      X