Ed Dingess: Evidence of Hypocrisy, Bullying, and Chauvinism

[Rayado]

If that's the case, then God rode a cherubim like a jet-ski (2 Samuel 22:11a), and is a giant chicken (Psalm 63:7, and many many other verses). How could you have forgotten that?

[edingess]

I was able to do some research regarding JP Holding today as well as this site. What I found was fascinating beyond words! Wow! When I responded to your post "Mmmm...fresh meat." I was being humerous. After doing some research, I discovered that you were probably being serious. It should come as no surprise to you why a man like Geisler won't engage you. That being said, I will provide a very brief response as I can see by some of the comments already made that my findings are likely, but regrettably true.

From the sixth hour darkess fell upon the land - Historical narrative
The ninth hour Jesus cried out - Historical narrative
Some who were standing there heard Him - Historical narrative
Someone brought a spounge filled with sour wine -Historical narrative
Some speculate about Elijah coming to save Him - Historical narrative
Jesus died - Historical narrative
The veil of the temple is torn - Historical narrative
Earthquake - Historical narrative
Saints resurrected - Poetry
Centurion's confession - Historical narrative
Ministering women looking upon Him - Historical narrative

Now, there is absolutely no clue, no hint, no reason whatever that I should arrive at the place that Licona does. I have no compelling reason to assign the resurrection of these saints to "special effects." The event was dramatic enough. Who needed more drama? That is a modern projection if ever there was one in my humble opinion. I would contend that the motive for assigning this event to poetry is a desire to maintain allegiance to the historical method. There is no good exegetical reason for me to think Matthew uses poetry here. The ONLY reason is the lack of corraborative evidence for this event. And that is not good reason to doubt the historical veracity of Scripture! More to come...have to run...busy.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I was able to do some research regarding JP Holding today as well as this site.

So you researched the medium but you didn't research the content. Have you read Licona's book yet or the relevant pages?

What I found was fascinating beyond words! Wow!

Usually the first time you do any research is fascinating.

When I responded to your post "Mmmm...fresh meat." I was being humerous. After doing some research, I discovered that you were probably being serious. It should come as no surprise to you why a man like Geisler won't engage you.

Not only did Geisler not engage him, if Geisler removed the challenge without comment, he's not wanting people to know he's failing to engage.

That being said, I will provide a very brief response as I can see by some of the comments already made that my findings are likely, but regrettably true.

From the sixth hour darkess fell upon the land - Historical narrative
The ninth hour Jesus cried out - Historical narrative
Some who were standing there heard Him - Historical narrative
Someone brought a spounge filled with sour wine -Historical narrative
Some speculate about Elijah coming to save Him - Historical narrative
Jesus died - Historical narrative
The veil of the temple is torn - Historical narrative
Earthquake - Historical narrative
Saints resurrected - Poetry
Centurion's confession - Historical narrative
Ministering women looking upon Him - Historical narrative

Now, there is absolutely no clue, no hint, no reason whatever that I should arrive at the place that Licona does. I have no compelling reason to assign the resurrection of these saints to "special effects." The event was dramatic enough. Who needed more drama? That is a modern projection if ever there was one in my humble opinion. I would contend that the motive for assigning this event to poetry is a desire to maintain allegiance to the historical method. There is no good exegetical reason for me to think Matthew uses poetry here. The ONLY reason is the lack of corraborative evidence for this event. And that is not good reason to doubt the historical veracity of Scripture! More to come...have to run...busy.

So all we have again is question begging.

Well Ed, I took the text in the plain sense above. Would you mind commenting on my amazing findings?

[edingess]

There are several reasons for that at this point. One, I have a full time job and my yonugest son is 11. Two, responding to your post isn't exactly at the top of my priority list. Three, I have discovered that your name is really Robert Turkel and I am now trying to figure out how to remove all my information from this site. Nothing personal Robert, it has to do with ethics, crediblity, and transparancy. I am sure you can repect that! Oops, excuse me, but based on the nature of your remarks to me, it seems respect may not be a concept you are overly familiar with. I will not engage in conversations that take on such uncharitable tones. Christian love demands we treat one another with a certain degree of dignity and respect, even when we disagree on issues. From my perspective, I do not get the sense that you adhere to the same standards. I pray that some day you will see that your methods do far more harm to Christianity than your arguments do good. Over and out. Take care.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Oh gosh! The Robert Turkel card! First off, so what if it was?

Second off, do you realize his name has been legally changed for a few years now? He is James Patrick Holding.

Why don't you research the issues instead? You could deal with what I've said to you.

[Rayado]

Edit: Yeah. Go right ahead--go right back to Geisler and report this to him so he can use it against 'Turkel' as well. See how well that goes!

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Someone please get a screen shot of that for posterity!

[Chrawnus]

I have discovered that your name is really Robert Turkel and I am now trying to figure out how to remove all my information from this site. Nothing personal Robert, it has to do with ethics, crediblity, and transparancy.

I think ed won this one.







Turkal.

[Teluog]

.....is this the first time a non-atheist has used the Turkel card?

Geez, I'm wondering if even St. Peter will at the pearly gates will get it wrong.

[Dee Dee Warren]

There are several reasons for that at this point. One, I have a full time job and my yonugest son is 11. Two, responding to your post isn't exactly at the top of my priority list. Three, I have discovered that your name is really Robert Turkel and I am now trying to figure out how to remove all my information from this site. Nothing personal Robert, it has to do with ethics, crediblity, and transparancy. I am sure you can repect that! Oops, excuse me, but based on the nature of your remarks to me, it seems respect may not be a concept you are overly familiar with. I will not engage in conversations that take on such uncharitable tones. Christian love demands we treat one another with a certain degree of dignity and respect, even when we disagree on issues. From my perspective, I do not get the sense that you adhere to the same standards. I pray that some day you will see that your methods do far more harm to Christianity than your arguments do good. Over and out. Take care.

LOL. I bet your name isn't edingess, if so, slap your mother. Ever hear of a legal name change? And did you bother to find out that his birth name is James Patrick Holding, that it was changed when he was a minor to Robert Turkel, and now as an adult he decided to go back to his birth name?

You dear sir, are a Jerk. First class.

[Dee Dee Warren]

And let me save you the trouble, my name isn't dizzle, or Janet, or Miss Jackson if you're nasty.

I also think you need to read up on common law aliases, not that it is relevant to JP, but it is relevant to any number of other people you are calling unethical. And since you are the king of ethics, care to disclose your elders so we can let them know you are going around accusing well-known apologists of dishonesty? Or are you hiding?

[Dee Dee Warren]

.....is this the first time a non-atheist has used the Turkel card?

Geez, I'm wondering if even St. Peter will at the pearly gates will get it wrong.

Oh no, we Christians have jerks aplenty that do so.

[jpholding]

I was able to do some research regarding JP Holding today as well as this site. What I found was fascinating beyond words! Wow! When I responded to your post "Mmmm...fresh meat." I was being humerous.

Was part of that not knowing how to spell "humorous"?

Now, there is absolutely no clue, no hint, no reason whatever that I should arrive at the place that Licona does. I have no compelling reason to assign the resurrection of these saints to "special effects."

I see you're still too stupid to get the point I made about mimesis. That all of the surrounding aspects of the story were historical narrative doesn't make a lick of difference. Ancient historians who used mimesis would use it RIGHT SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF A LOT OF SURROUNDING HISTORICAL NARRATIVE. This is Geisler's argument about the surroundings, which has already been refuted.

It would help if you actually advanced to the next stage of argument.

[jpholding]

There are several reasons for that at this point. One, I have a full time job and my yonugest son is 11.

Then maybe you should get him to answer these posts for you. He might do a better job, and his spelling is likely to be improved over yours.

Two, responding to your post isn't exactly at the top of my priority list.

Given how badly you're being beaten, I can see why.

Three, I have discovered that your name is really Robert Turkel and I am now trying to figure out how to remove all my information from this site.

You can't. I'm going to post your embarrassing error in a special thread here we reserve for suckers who fall for that canard. You believed what an atheist said -- shame on you.

Nothing personal Robert, it has to do with ethics, crediblity, and transparancy.

Um yeah. This is really non-public info:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...d-DEAL-WITH-IT!
http://www.tektonics.org/JP-Holding.html

Nice to know you did the same level of research about me you did about the Geisler-Licona issue.

Christian love demands we treat one another with a certain degree of dignity and respect, even when we disagree on issues.

Not when you try to deceive the sheep it doesn't. Nice try.

[jpholding]

.....is this the first time a non-atheist has used the Turkel card?

Nope. James White used it.