Dashcam recording of Castile's shooting released.

[Tassman]

The solution is to reach people for Christ - one at a time.

All of them - forget socio-eco-whatsit - remember that God loves them.

Yeah right! The "opium of the people". That'll do it.

[Bill the Cat]

What is it with conservatives here continuing to quote that white supremacist website? Its mainly there to gather together articles that try to argue that black people are inferior to white people and incapable of western culture, which is the point the alt-right is harping.

I wouldn't trust those authors to tell me what time of day it was, or to sit right on a toilet seat.

And I'm frankly a little concerned that its cited more on this website recently.

Isn't attacking the source instead of the content, y'know... a fallacy?

[Bill the Cat]

Yeah right! The "opium of the people". That'll do it.

Sure as heck better than the nothingness of atheism...

[Sparko]

Are you aware that a major contributing factor to blacks being born and raised in single parent homes is the 'tough on crime' and 'three strikes' policies that have led to the fathers being put in prison so they can't be there for their kids?

derp. Well gorsh, if they didn't keep committing CRIMES they wouldn't be in prison, would they?

[Sparko]

I don't disagree. However, it's pretty clear that US cops and the US justice system are even more disproportionately likely to target them and imprison them. And you've got really really long and harsh prison sentences which basically imprison them for life and take them away from their kids (not to mention being absurdly expensive for taxpayers!). And then a new generation gets raised without father figures, and so you worsen the cycle by your excessive imprisonment.

Here in NZ, we have a similar problem with 'blacks', as our native people (the Maori) are disproportionately likely to engage in criminal behavior due to historical and socio-economic factors, and so are disproportionately represented in the prison population (while they comprise only 15% of the national population - a tad more than the percent of blacks in the US, they comprise 51% of the prison population here). And that is why we are at the higher-end on that chart of OECD imprisonment rates compared to countries like Ireland or Denmark that are more mono-ethnic than us, whom we would be approximately matching in imprisonment rates if not for the Maori. However, unlike the US, we don't imprison them for absurdly long lengths of time, and we have been spending a lot of money and many programs pro-actively trying to help this group of people, and the Maori political party has been part of the coalition government (multiple parties together having a majority in parliament) for the past 9 years.

So the US and NZ are roughly comparable in terms of the problems faced with a particular dark-skinned people-group of comparable population percentage being socio-economically not well off for historical reasons and disproportionately likely to commit crime, but if you compare the difference in incarceration rates it shows just how much policy choice to have long prison sentences and to crack down really harshly on crime, matters:

Hey do ya think that the higher incarceration rates could be because of the higher crime rates in the USA?

Top-Ten-Countries-With-Highest-Reported-Crime-Rates.jpg

If people don't break the law, then they won't be tossed in jail/prison. The problem starts with the people doing the crimes, not the government for putting them in jail for it.

PS - your stats are for ALL people incarcerated, not just blacks FYI

[Mountain Man]

Besides, those statistics can be interpreted different ways. For instance, it could be suggested that other countries are more lax on crime than the US, or that their justice systems are less efficient when it comes to prosecuting criminals.

[seer]

Besides, those statistics can be interpreted different ways. For instance, it could be suggested that other countries are more lax on crime than the US, or that their justice systems are less efficient when it comes to prosecuting criminals.

And the crimes involved. What are their murder, manslaughter rates? Violent crime rates in general? Armed robbery rates? Rape, etc... Compared to ours? For instance our murder rate is 5 per 100,000, New Zealand's is 1.3 per 100,000.

[Starlight]

Hey do ya think that the higher incarceration rates could be because of the higher crime rates in the USA?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23083[/ATTACH]

That chart is in absolute numbers. Given the US is 5 times more populous than the UK and France, and 4 times more populous than Germany, then your data actually shows the US crime rate is about half what it is in those countries.

If people don't break the law, then they won't be tossed in jail/prison. The problem starts with the people doing the crimes, not the government for putting them in jail for it.

So given that US police are receiving crime reports at half the rate per 100,000 people that police in the UK and Germany and France are, why is the US imprisoning 4-8 times as many people per 100,000 as those countries?

[One Bad Pig]

Yeah right! The "opium of the people". That'll do it.

Atheism is the opium of unrepentant sinners.

[Sparko]

That chart is in absolute numbers. Given the US is 5 times more populous than the UK and France, and 4 times more populous than Germany, then your data actually shows the US crime rate is about half what it is in those countries.

So given that US police are receiving crime reports at half the rate per 100,000 people that police in the UK and Germany and France are, why is the US imprisoning 4-8 times as many people per 100,000 as those countries?

obviously because the fascist government is rounding up the liberals and the unwashed minorities and putting them in death camps, Starlight.

[Starlight]

For instance our murder rate is 5 per 100,000, New Zealand's is 1.3 per 100,000.

Sure, because you all have guns. But murder is such a tiny fraction of crimes committed it doesn't influence the overall prison statistics much.

By far and away the biggest influence on the total number of prisoners is how long you send a person to prison for. The US introduced tough-on-crime and three-strikes legislation that restricted the ability of judges to use their judgement to give short sentences and required them to give very long sentences. The outcome of that is that there are more people in prison at any given time, because once you send them there they stay there for many years.

People here in NZ are pretty surprised and shocked when they hear the lengths and harshness of US prison sentences. The sentence here for murder used to be 7 years (it's recently been upped to 10 years, and 17 in cases where it was extra bad). I've linked before to a case last year where a man yelled at the police officer who told him his driver's license was being suspended and threatened to kill the officer, and chased the police down the road in his truck for 25 miles at 12 miles above the speed limit, and the court fined him $500 USD and suspended his driver's licence for 6 months.

[seer]

That chart is in absolute numbers. Given the US is 5 times more populous than the UK and France, and 4 times more populous than Germany, then your data actually shows the US crime rate is about half what it is in those countries.

So given that US police are receiving crime reports at half the rate per 100,000 people that police in the UK and Germany and France are, why is the US imprisoning 4-8 times as many people per 100,000 as those countries?

Star, we have, for instance, nearly 5 times more murders per 100,000 than you do. The numbers are probably similar with other violent crimes. It is not just about the number of crimes but the kind of crimes.

[seer]

Sure, because you all have guns. But murder is such a tiny fraction of crimes committed it doesn't influence the overall prison statistics much.

By far and away the biggest influence on the total number of prisoners is how long you send a person to prison for. The US introduced tough-on-crime and three-strikes legislation that restricted the ability of judges to use their judgement to give short sentences and required them to give very long sentences. The outcome of that is that there are more people in prison at any given time, because once you send them there they stay there for many years.

People here in NZ are pretty surprised and shocked when they hear the lengths and harshness of US prison sentences. The sentence here for murder used to be 7 years (it's recently been upped to 10 years, and 17 in cases where it was extra bad). I've linked before to a case last year where a man yelled at the police officer who told him his driver's license was being suspended and threatened to kill the officer, and chased the police down the road in his truck for 25 miles at 12 miles above the speed limit, and the court fined him $500 USD and suspended his driver's licence for 6 months.

We can't help it is you let murders out in ten years, or other violent rapists and such.

[Mountain Man]

Sure, because you all have guns. But murder is such a tiny fraction of crimes committed it doesn't influence the overall prison statistics much.

By far and away the biggest influence on the total number of prisoners is how long you send a person to prison for. The US introduced tough-on-crime and three-strikes legislation that restricted the ability of judges to use their judgement to give short sentences and required them to give very long sentences. The outcome of that is that there are more people in prison at any given time, because once you send them there they stay there for many years.

People here in NZ are pretty surprised and shocked when they hear the lengths and harshness of US prison sentences. The sentence here for murder used to be 7 years (it's recently been upped to 10 years, and 17 in cases where it was extra bad). I've linked before to a case last year where a man yelled at the police officer who told him his driver's license was being suspended and threatened to kill the officer, and chased the police down the road in his truck for 25 miles at 12 miles above the speed limit, and the court fined him $500 USD and suspended his driver's licence for 6 months.

Like I said, the statistics can just as validly be interpreted to mean that other countries are more lax on crime than the US (a mere 10-years for murder? Really?), or that they're less efficient than the US when it comes to prosecuting criminals (A $500 fine for actively trying to kill a police officer? Really?).

[Sparko]

Sure, because you all have guns. But murder is such a tiny fraction of crimes committed it doesn't influence the overall prison statistics much.

By far and away the biggest influence on the total number of prisoners is how long you send a person to prison for. The US introduced tough-on-crime and three-strikes legislation that restricted the ability of judges to use their judgement to give short sentences and required them to give very long sentences. The outcome of that is that there are more people in prison at any given time, because once you send them there they stay there for many years.

People here in NZ are pretty surprised and shocked when they hear the lengths and harshness of US prison sentences. The sentence here for murder used to be 7 years (it's recently been upped to 10 years, and 17 in cases where it was extra bad). I've linked before to a case last year where a man yelled at the police officer who told him his driver's license was being suspended and threatened to kill the officer, and chased the police down the road in his truck for 25 miles at 12 miles above the speed limit, and the court fined him $500 USD and suspended his driver's licence for 6 months.

only 7 to 10 years for murdering someone? That's insane. and unjust. You took someone's entire life and affected everyone's life who that person knew. You took them away from friends and family and children. Heck you prevented them from having children. And you only get 7 years?

At this point your outrage at the USA's handling of crime is dismissed as idiotic rantings.