Quick question about preterism

[Astro]

I'm curious how preterists interpret the prophecies in Isaiah 65, especially verse 20 that says that there will be death in this age (but that people will live to 100). I'm open to the view but am struggling with this part, especially since I don't think it can possibly refer to the New Heaven/Earth/heaven/etc.)

[seanD]

I don't think this would be a problem exclusive to preterism. It looks like a problem to futurism too, or at least traditional futurism. Only way we could interpret that is either metaphorically or that the world continues as before, only with obvious differences. Or perhaps God reboots the system and starts over again.

[Astro]

Most of the explanations I've found call it the millennium, but the context in 65:17 seems to make this unlikely. Truth be told, I'm very bothered by this.

[seanD]

But why would it be the millennium when the passage clearly says it happens after everything is re-created, which correlates with Rev 21. I think it's pretty simple. God recreates everything and starts over with a new people (where they come from, we don't know). Obviously there's still death for these people because there 's a Tree of Life. Other than a new heaven and earth, the only other difference is that the Christians will be ruling and reigning with Christ in this new world.

[Astro]

Revelation 21:4 is clear that there will be no more death so I do not see how this interpretation is plausible.

[seanD]

Revelation 21:4 is clear that there will be no more death so I do not see how this interpretation is plausible.

Only way I could interpret it is that there is no more death for believers in Christ prior to this event, because they have already been resurrected and turned immortal as per 1 Cor 15. But their must be a race of people that are not immortal and need the tree of Life. Otherwise, then yeah, you got a serious contradiction there.

If you notice in Rev 21, he's specifically addressing "the tabernacle" which I interpret to be the church, and these are the ones he wipes all tears and never die. And they apparently dwell in Jerusalem, which is exclusive from those on the outside of the gates, though those on the outside are permitted in only if they qualify.

[Astro]

They can't be outside the gates as Isaiah 65:18-19 refers to it as a created Jerusalem. Maybe we have to go the metaphoric route? My head hurts.

[seanD]

The Rev passages say the people outside the city are permitted through the gates only if they qualify and this is where they can partake of the tree of life, and this is where there is not more weeping. So we can assume those who are permitted to enter live for a very long time. I give Rev a bit more precedence because John was obviously able to see a clearer picture of the future. Carefully read Rev 21 and 22 and get back to me.

[Astro]

Follow up: I'm looking at Alec Motyer's Isaiah commentary and he argues that this is is Hebrew metaphor describing the total defeat of death per Isaiah 25. While not quite satisfactory, it remains an exegetical possibility. Richard Bauckham seems to take a similar tack.

[seanD]

Follow up: I'm looking at Alec Motyer's Isaiah commentary and he argues that this is is Hebrew metaphor describing the total defeat of death per Isaiah 25. While not quite satisfactory, it remains an exegetical possibility. Richard Bauckham seems to take a similar tack.

Then where does that leave Rev 21 and 22?

[mikewhitney]

My preterist position leaves me expecting a future resurrection (likely a bodily resurrection).
Before the discussion now, which clarified a few points out of the verses, I would have expected Isa 65 to be literal. But since this was pointed out to be related to the New Jerusalem, I would think Isa 65 is metaphorical.

Basically we find expressions of paradise restored in contrast to the constant struggle in life (or the curse). The old Jerusalem was subject to battles and uncertainties whereas the New Jerusalem was a place of security where no one could separate the people from God. The key concluding remark is in verse 25 " They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith Jehovah. " Even in this last remark we may find somewhat an idealistic description rather than functional -- its a description of the Christian's relationship with God -- not so much of the detailed reality we exist in on earth. Yet there is the possibility that God is drawing things more toward the idealistic.

Isa 65:20, in a metaphoric sense, would be speak of a general undoing of the curse of a shortened life. We saw the shortening of the life span of people in Genesis. And possibly 65:20 is expressive of the dichotomy of our present situation where we both have eternal life and may still 'die' young from this physical momentary existence.


//