The Anon Road to Damascus Thread

[Manwë Súlimo]

I love you, Anon. We've all respected you and hoped this day would come.

Now if we can get Chris to do the same thing....

[Analytic Theist]

What took you so long, man?

Better now then never. Don't scare him off.

[Manwë Súlimo]

He's on TWeb. If he can scare, he'd run off years ago.

[Chrs]

Now if we can get Chris to do the same thing....

pssh, i like my life of sin thanks

[Chrawnus]

pssh, i like my life of sin thanks

Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. He'll even become your cosmic buddy and deal with whatever problems you have, no matter how small or minute, you just have to sign over your whole life to him...

[ApologiaPhoenix]

pssh, i like my life of sin thanks

Yeah. We know you're not going to stop eating babies you wicked God-hater.

[The Moonshield]

Yeah. We know you're not going to stop eating babies you wicked God-hater.

What an offensive caricature. Just because someone doesn't share your beliefs doesn't mean that they enjoy eating babies, you know.

Some of us prefer the sweet, sweet flavor of puppy flesh and rabbit tears.

[Rational Gaze]

pssh, i like my life of sin thanks

We have cookies.

[Scrawly]

Anon has asked me to post this as a thread in my section, and I will do so without further comment as I think none is needed!

***

There has been some confusion and more than a few requests for explanation about what is going on with my core beliefs. Some time last week, I realized that I could no longer call myself a skeptic. After fifteen years away from Christianity, most of which was spent as an atheist with an active, busy intent on destroying the faith, I returned to a church (with a real intention of going for worship) last Sunday. Although I know I may struggle with doubt for the rest of my life, my life as an atheist is over.



The primary motivator in my change of heart from a Christ-hater to a card-carrying Disciples of Christ member was apologetic arguments for God's existence. Those interested in these arguments may pursue them in the comments section, but I don't want to muddle this explanation up with formal philosophical proofs. Briefly, I grew tired of the lack of explanation for: the existence of the universe, moral values and duties, objective human worth, consciousness and will, and many other topics. The only valid foundation for many of those ideas is a personal, immaterial, unchanging and unchangeable entity. As I fought so desperately to come up with refutations of these arguments - even going out of my way to personally meet many of their originators, defenders, and opponents - I realized that I could not answer them no matter how many long nights I spent hitting the books. The months of study rolled on to years, and eventually I found an increasing comfort around my God-believing enemies and a growing discontent and even anger at my atheist friends' inability to kill off these fleas in debate and in writing, an anger that gave birth to my first feeling of separateness from skepticism after reading comments related to a definitively refuted version of the Christ Myth theory, the idea that Jesus Christ never even existed as a person at all. Line after line after line of people hating Christianity and laughing at its "lie," when solid scholarship refuting their idea was ignored completely. It showed that the motive of bashing and hating Christianity for some skeptics wasn't based in reason and "free thinking" at all, although it would be unfair to lump many of my more intellectually rigorous and mentally cool skeptic friends in this way.



As time went on, I reverted the path I traced after giving up Christianity so long ago: I went from atheist to agnostic to … gulp … *leaning* in the direction of God, to finally accepting that he very well could exist, and then to coming out and admitting (quietly) He did exist. After considering Deism (the belief in a God who abandons His creation), Islam, Hinduism (yes, Krishna, don't laugh), Baha'i, and even Jainism briefly, I have decided to select Christianity due to its superior model for human evil and its reconciliation, coupled with the belief that God interacted with man directly and face-to-face and had *the* crucial role in this reconciliation. This, of course, doesn't prove that Christianity is absolutely true (although I can prove that God exists), but rather reflects my recognition that Christianity is exactly what I would expect to be the case given that God exists.



There are problems that I have with adopting any specific layout of Christianity, which explains my current attendance at what many of you may consider to be a very liberal denomination in the Disciples of Christ. Their aim is to unify all believers in the essentials, while leaving nonessential beliefs (however important) up to the member to decide. The essentials are about all I can honestly grasp at this moment. At its philosophical core, I prefer the Reformed (Calvinist) tradition, perhaps by a long shot, but there are many very serious practical issues I can't resolve. Conversely, Catholicism is a practical Godsend (pardon the term) but I have problems with their philosophy. And I don't agree with many political issues of either of those branches or the majority of Christian branches in general. I have a long way to go and I know the many problems religion has in general and that Christianity has in specific, but they do not exceed the fatal problems in skepticism.



I understand that this may confuse and even upset many of the friends I've had for a long time, both in my personal life and in the years-long journey I've made as a skeptic-to-believer. Christianity is not without its critics, and given the absolutely shameful way many "Christians" have treated homosexuals, drug addicts, people of other faiths (and of no faith) and races, and even people of different Christian denomination, and given the often intellectually embarrassing way we've handled science and philosophy, I would not blame you for a second if you did not want to associate with me based on the track record of those who claim to believe similarly to what I believe now. I am the same Darrin as I was before, a math teacher, a storm chaser, D&D gamer, drunk philosopher, a lover of beer that's too strong and spice that's too hot, and all the rest of it. I just hope to be a little cleaner, more honest, more Christ-like. I won't throw the Bible at you and I won't preach to you with wild eyes and a million mile stare about how you shouldn't be gay or how you should focus on what Hitch calls the "eternal theme park." This is all the evangelism you'll get from me (unless you ask after I've had too much Guinness) and I do hope it's quite enough to motivate you to study the evidence for God's existence yourself and to read the Bible without the predetermined idea of tearing it apart. Come over to the dark side; we have tea and cookies.



-Darrin



P.S. Although I am loath to bring it up because I hate to take the focus off of my brother and niece, I would be dishonest to not acknowledge the fact that I have lost my wonderful mother and my brother's beautiful young wife in the span of ten months. I've also managed to settle down and get married in the midst of all of that, meaning I've commenced a family life on my own, an idea that probably seems ludicrous for those of you who've known me for any length of time. Many of you would, understandably, wonder if such things have upset me to the point of dropping all I knew and following some guy who two thousand years ago said "follow me." I've reflected deeply about this very thing and wondered if this is all reactionary, but all of my study of God's existence and all of my existential woe predates even my mom's heart attack two years ago. The events of the past year served only to highlight the pressing need to address my changing ideas, rather than being the cause of them.

Hey Anon, would your proof of God's existence be derived from the arguments mentioned above: existence of the universe, moral values and duties, objective human worth, consciousness and will, etc.?

Do you really think those arguments constitute as proof for God's existence? I can accept that they are evidence....

[JimboJSR]

Yes yes yes, God, Jesus, I'm calling myself a Christian now, whatever. The REAL question, Anon, is: do you believe in the Horny Doofus?

Moderated By: CP

Can we please respect the fact that Anon has made a very important decision, and keep comments in line with the purpose of the OP? There are plenty of other threads where Christianity can be derided and maligned.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

[Mountain Man]

The thing I appreciate most about Anon's testimony is how his reasoning was so wonderfully free of emotional hand wringing. I see a man who tackled some of life's toughest questions with clear minded rationality and a willingness to follow the evidence where it led. The world would be a better place if we had more free thinkers like him.

[Andius]

The thing I appreciate most about Anon's testimony is how his reasoning was so wonderfully free of emotional hand wringing. I see a man who tackled some of life's toughest questions with clear minded rationality and a willingness to follow the evidence where it led. The world would be a better place if we had more free thinkers like him.

The world perhaps may not have as many free thinkers like him, but lets rejoice in the fact that the Church has 1 more great freethinker in its ranks instead, heheheheheh.

[Anon]

Thanks for the encouragement! I knew some folks would be happy for me, but I never expected this to be so warm. As I dip cautiously into the non-theology end of the pool for the first time, I've realized I need the support of other believers and a church family. It's embarrassing; I may know how to spell out the Kalam, but I don't even know how to pray!

Sorry I haven't answered posts yet; I have had a busy time with my family over Thanksgiving and with my job as the semester winds down. My brother continues to struggle with the loss of his wife. Please pray for him and my young niece.

A comment I added on a Facebook thread that needs to be mentioned:

Now, as to me faking it, I'd like to testify that there are quite a few people, including John Loftus and Richard Carrier on the atheist side and Drs. Craig and Copan on the theist side that knew I was a skeptic. By the time I met those gentlemen, I was likely more of an agnostic than an atheist even though I still represented myself as an atheist (something Loftus pointed out to me, in fact).

Before my brief time "on the scene," so to speak, I was a staunch atheist and evangelical about it, and I can supply dozens of personal witnesses that knew all about that. I have letters to the editor of my hometown paper attacking a local pastor. I insulted believers to their faces and even cursed at them openly. I refused to read books given to me because they were written by Christians (my friend's gift of "A Grief Observed" was kept for years and only cracked open recently for the first time) and I didn't listen to music by open Christians (still hate Creed, though, lol). I argued with my mother, who was ill at the time, and broke her heart about it. My best friend and I even had a time where we would do things like smoke and wipe with Bible pages. And that's only the stuff I remember.

The journey back here really began after watching "Loose Change" and feeling somewhat uneasy about the Jesus Myth segment. I was surprised at myself, because what better idea for an atheist than to find a theory that proved Christ never existed at all? What I discovered on the Internet was a bunch of skeptics believing in it without investigation, while this pompous, arrogant J.P. Holding guy wrecked the theory in an essay that actually made a little sense ... for a Christian. Now, I know skeptics shouldn't be all painted like this just like all apologists shouldn't be grouped with less thorough campaigns like Comfort, but it was the first time in my life that I was actually mad at fellow unbelievers.

To cut the story short, the tenacity and strength of the arguments for God brought me to agnosticism, then to Deism; faith (the Holy Spirit?) coupled with in my opinion the only effective answer for my own evil led me to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I realize this note I wrote wasn't thorough; it wasn't intended to be an apologetic. I plan to write a post later giving the reasoning and documentation that people curious about my switch deserve.

Once I get this more thorough post written on my facebook page, I will cross-post in in Apologetics 301. My goal is to make bertatberts' brain melt out of his ears :D

[Raphael]

Thanks for the encouragement! I knew some folks would be happy for me, but I never expected this to be so warm. As I dip cautiously into the non-theology end of the pool for the first time, I've realized I need the support of other believers and a church family. It's embarrassing; I may know how to spell out the Kalam, but I don't even know how to pray!

Sorry I haven't answered posts yet; I have had a busy time with my family over Thanksgiving and with my job as the semester winds down. My brother continues to struggle with the loss of his wife. Please pray for him and my young niece.

A comment I added on a Facebook thread that needs to be mentioned:



Once I get this more thorough post written on my facebook page, I will cross-post in in Apologetics 301. My goal is to make bertatberts' brain melt out of his ears :D

I have to ask, was it a kicking and screaming type conversion like Lewis' "most miserable convert in all of England" or a happier one?

BTW, congrats on the marriage, and deepest condolences to your brother, we will be praying for him and his daughter.

[fm93]

My goal is to make bertatberts' brain

*puts on skeptic hat

You're irrationally believing in something that has no evidence of even existing. Gullible fundy sheep.