What is G-d?

[sylvius]

Lev 24:16 tells us that whoever utters G-d’s [four letter] name must be put to death.

But it doens't say that his (true) name is too holy to utter.

Verb used in Leviticus 24:16 is "nakav" -

"nakav" - to bore, perforate, pierce; mention, specify, name, mark, distinguish.

It is used here in the context of a man, son of an Egyptian man and an Israelite woman, who mentioned the name and cursed (v.11)

So the punishment meted out in. v.16 might as well be for the curse, v.16 to be read in combination with v.15.

G-d is holier than any of His creations

What you mean by "holy", that there can be gradations in holiness?

G-d is referred to by many different names, titles, and descriptions, such as G-d, the Lord, the Eternal, and the Almighty to name a few.

Aren't they true names?

[Tanakh Keeper]

Our sages disagree with your interpretation of Hebrew grammar.

They are all labels that we use to refer to G-d. They aren't the name that G-d tells us in Lev 24:16 is forbidden to be spoken.

[sylvius]

Our sages disagree with your interpretation of Hebrew grammar.

They are all labels that we use to refer to G-d. They aren't the name that G-d tells us in Lev 24:16 is forbidden to be spoken.

Leviticus 14:15-16,

And to the children of Israel, you shall speak, saying: Any man who curses his God shall bear his sin and one who mentions the name of Hashem, shall be put to death

Rashi on "v'nokeiv shem" = and he who mentions the name:

[This teaches us that] one is not liable [to the death penalty] unless he pronounces the [four-letter Divine] Name. However, one who curses using an ancillary Name [for God, rather than the explicit, four-letter Name], is not [liable to the death penalty]. — [Torath Kohanim 24:243]

Note from Rabbi Silbermann:

The meaning of vv. 15-16 accordingly is the following: If one curses his God (using in connection with the curse one of the Surnames, "chanun", "rachum", etc.) he shall bear his sin (i.e. suffer excision), but if he utter blasphemously the "shem ham'yuchad"" - when cursing (the word "y''kaleil" of v. 15 is to be connected also with v.16) then he shall surely be put to death by the judges.

"m'yuchad" = special, extraordinary, singular.

[Tanakh Keeper]

one is not liable [to the death penalty] unless he pronounces the [four-letter Divine] Name.

I see you agree with me. I'm glad that's settled.

[sylvius]

I see you agree with me. I'm glad that's settled.

No I don't.

"one is not liable [to the death penalty] unless he pronounces the [four-letter Divine] Name"
is just the translation by chabad.org: .http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi/true

Rashi: אינו חייב עד שיפרש את השם, "eino chayaw ad shèy'farash et-hashem"-

"parash"= to explain, clarify, specify
Which is something else than to pronounce.

"shem ham'forash" = the explained name = the ineffable name.

The death penalty was only for those who cursed by using the "shem ham'forash''.

That God's name is extraordinary might also be clear from the second story of creation.

Adam named all the animals and also his wife, but he didn't name God...

Genesis 2:19,
And the Lord God formed from the earth every beast of the field and every fowl of the heavens, and He brought [it] to man to see what he would call it, and whatever the man called each living thing, that was its name.

Genesis 3:20,
And the man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all life.

[sylvius]

Note that John 1:18 says something about the "shem ham'forash",

18θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε: μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο

God no one has seen ever: The singular one being at the bossom of the father he has explained.

ἐξηγέομαι = Hebrew "parash" = to explain, clarify, specify


The singular one, the one who was executed and resurrected.

Executed for what reason?

For blasphemiously uttering the ineffable name?

[Tanakh Keeper]

Whatever the Christian bible says is irrelevant.

[gerry]

[...]

It is a foundation of our faith to believe that G-d is One and that He is a most perfect and absolute Unity. Although the universe contains many galaxies, each consisting of innumerable stars and planets, there is one G-d who is Author and Creator of them all. Judaism emphatically rejects any concept of plurality with respect to G-d. Since any additional quality would add an element of plurality to G-d's essence, we conceive of Him as being absolutely simple.

[...]

Dear Tanakh:


Please tell me how you reason from God's existence to the oneness of God -- no Biblical quotations please unless Biblical quotations are reasoning statements leading to the conclusion that there is only one God.



Gerry

[gerry]

Dear Tanakh:


You are a member of the Jewish people, this is a people that has witnessed interactions with God.

Now, I like for you to make a list of specific interactions between characters of the Old Testament or the Jewish Bible, and draw up a profile of God's behavioral pattern.

In this way humans can see how God in the Jewish people interacted with the Jewish people.


And we non-Jewish folks can obtain some hints how to also interact or deal with God or get God to interact with us, who are not anyone of the Jewish people.


It is obvious that a lot of the Jewish people nowadays consider all those specific instances of interaction between the Jewish leaders in the Jewish Bible to be of no worth whatsoever in terms of any reality of God's existence.


That is the challenge to you, instead of talking in nebulous directions.




Gerry

[Tanakh Keeper]

Dear Tanakh:


You are a member of the Jewish people, this is a people that has witnessed interactions with God.

Now, I like for you to make a list of specific interactions between characters of the Old Testament or the Jewish Bible, and draw up a profile of God's behavioral pattern.

Why would I want to to this?

In this way humans can see how God in the Jewish people interacted with the Jewish people.


And we non-Jewish folks can obtain some hints how to also interact or deal with God or get God to interact with us, who are not anyone of the Jewish people.

All the answers are already in Torah. Also instead of looking for "hints", look instead at the actual words of G-d, which are said plainly and distinctly.

It is obvious that a lot of the Jewish people nowadays consider all those specific instances of interaction between the Jewish leaders in the Jewish Bible to be of no worth whatsoever in terms of any reality of God's existence.

Oh really? How many Jewish people did you directly ask this of?

[gerry]

Tanakh Keeper
Re: What is G-d?

Jump to Post Originally posted by gerry
Dear Tanakh:


You are a member of the Jewish people, this is a people that has witnessed interactions with God.

Now, I like for you to make a list of specific interactions between characters of the Old Testament or the Jewish Bible, and draw up a profile of God's behavioral pattern.

Why would I want to to this?

Jump to Post Originally posted by gerry
In this way humans can see how God in the Jewish people interacted with the Jewish people.


And we non-Jewish folks can obtain some hints how to also interact or deal with God or get God to interact with us, who are not anyone of the Jewish people.

All the answers are already in Torah. Also instead of looking for "hints", look instead at the actual words of G-d, which are said plainly and distinctly.

Jump to Post Originally posted by gerry
It is obvious that a lot of the Jewish people nowadays consider all those specific instances of interaction between the Jewish leaders in the Jewish Bible to be of no worth whatsoever in terms of any reality of God's existence.

Oh really? How many Jewish people did you directly ask this of?

Re: What is G-d?

Dear Tanakh:


You are a member of the Jewish people, this is a people that has witnessed interactions with God.

Now, I like for you to make a list of specific interactions between characters of the Old Testament or the Jewish Bible, and draw up a profile of God's behavioral pattern.

In this way humans can see how God in the Jewish people interacted with the Jewish people.


And we non-Jewish folks can obtain some hints how to also interact or deal with God or get God to interact with us, who are not anyone of the Jewish people.


It is obvious that a lot of the Jewish people nowadays consider all those specific instances of interaction between the Jewish leaders in the Jewish Bible to be of no worth whatsoever in terms of any reality of God's existence.


That is the challenge to you, instead of talking in nebulous directions.

You are the first Jewish person whom I ask to do a study of the profile of interactions between God and His chosen people the Jewish nation or people or ethnic group.

This is possibly a scientific study.

If you are not interested then you can go back to your nebulous exposition of "What is G-d" for you as a Jewish person.

This exposition "What is G-d" does not serve any purpose except to prove to yourself that you are very good in manipulating concepts and words in order to tell people what is G-d.

That is very good as far as concepts and words go, but I want guidelines how to interact with God, from genuine authentic historical accounts.

What people like myself want to know is how God interacts with His self-declared chosen people, a concrete behavioral pattern-profile, so that we can try to interact with Him or get Him with all due reverence to interact with us.


What is the use of such a study?

Very useful, so that we non-Jewish folks who also believe in God will get to know how best to deal with God so as to receive all the blessings of God like Abraham and Isaac and Jacob did.



And also while you are at it, please tell me how you prove God's oneness by reason.

Re: What is G-d?

Jump to Post.

Jump to Post Originally posted by Tanakh Keeper

[...]

It is a foundation of our faith to believe that G-d is One and that He is a most perfect and absolute Unity. Although the universe contains many galaxies, each consisting of innumerable stars and planets, there is one G-d who is Author and Creator of them all. Judaism emphatically rejects any concept of plurality with respect to G-d. Since any additional quality would add an element of plurality to G-d's essence, we conceive of Him as being absolutely simple.

[...]

Dear Tanakh:


Please tell me how you reason from God's existence to the oneness of God -- no Biblical quotations please unless Biblical quotations are reasoning statements leading to the conclusion that there is only one God.

Dear Tanakh, you are one terrific resource person for Jewish beliefs and practical instructions on how to interact with God.

So, what are you waiting for?




Gerry

[robrecht]

... This exposition "What is G-d" does not serve any purpose except to prove to yourself that you are very good in manipulating concepts and words in order to tell people what is G-d. ...

Gerry, why must you always resort to such insults? I, for one, very much appreciated Tanakh Keeper starting this thread and found his initial post to be very profound.

[Tanakh Keeper]

Dear Tanakh:
Please tell me how you reason from God's existence to the oneness of God -- no Biblical quotations please

I found this to be an interesting question... 'Explain how I believe G-d is One without using the bible'. I will explain my beliefs using reason, but I have no interest in trying to convince anyone to agree with my personal beliefs.

First, I see G-d as being All-Powerful. He creates time, matter, and energy. Everything we can observe and not observe is His handiwork. He is in all places and times at once. G-d is infinite, without any boundaries. Only a single divine entity can be infinite. Once multiple beings, with their own identities are theorized, then none can be infinite. For if they are separate, then they must have boundaries. And if they have no boundaries, then they can't be separate.

Second, only one man was created in the beginning. If multiple gods were present in the creation, then multiple men would have been created. Each god would have had their own portfolio, and each would want to display their own power as part of the creation. The fact that only one man was created means to me that only one divine being was doing the creating.

You are the first Jewish person whom I ask to do a study of the profile of interactions between God and His chosen people the Jewish nation or people or ethnic group.

I'm not interested. Do your own biblical research.

This exposition "What is G-d" does not serve any purpose except to prove to yourself that you are very good in manipulating concepts and words in order to tell people what is G-d.

I personally think my one post essay was way more useful and interesting than your 18-page thread trying to define the word "universe".

That is very good as far as concepts and words go, but I want guidelines how to interact with God, from genuine authentic historical accounts.

You can start by reading my tagline and adhering to it.

He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your G-d.

What people like myself want to know is how God interacts with His self-declared chosen people, a concrete behavioral pattern-profile, so that we can try to interact with Him or get Him with all due reverence to interact with us.

That begs the question, who are people like yourself?

Interact with him by being loving towards your fellow humans. The golden rule is also good "That which is hateful to yourself, forbear from doing to others."

The seven Noahide Laws are also a good reference for non-Jews:
1) I will not worship anyone or anything other than the One Creator, who cares for the creatures of our world, renewing the Act of Creation at every moment in infinite wisdom, being life for each thing.
2) I will not show disrespect for the Creator in any way.
3) I will not murder.
4) I will respect the institution of marriage.
5) I will not take that which does not rightfully belong to me.
6) I will not cause needless harm to any living thing.
7) I will uphold courts of truth and justice in my land.

[shunyadragon]

God is a four letter name, called tetragrammaton.

It is not a name like other names.

You can't call him by name, like yo can call others by name.

He is the name.

A three letter word - G-O-D.

[sylvius]

A three letter word - G-O-D.

What if these letters are gonna quarrel amongst each other, f.e. the "O" wanting to be superior to "G" and "D"?