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Was Lazarus the author of the Gospel of John?

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  • Was Lazarus the author of the Gospel of John?

    This is what Ben Witherington has to say:

    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/bib ... ciple.html

    What do you all think?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Your link is broken. IIRC I've read a book of his about the subject; I was not at all convinced, however.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Your link is broken. IIRC I've read a book of his about the subject; I was not at all convinced, however.
      This link should work:

      http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...-disciple.html

      Why don't you find it convincing?

      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #4
        IIRC that was Martin Luther's view.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          wait. so is this theory saying that the Disciple John is Lazarus? Or that Lazarus wrote John but John was someone else? Because the bible says that John Zebedee had a brother James. And Lazarus had a sister Martha but no mention of a brother. They don't seem to be the same person, and no other gospel mentions an apostle Lazarus.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
            This link should work:

            http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...-disciple.html

            Why don't you find it convincing?

            Thanks.
            Short answer, it's (AFAIK) novel, and Lazarus seems to be something of a bit player in the overall gospel story; he's not mentioned at all by the other gospel writers, not even by Luke when he's writing about his sisters.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              wait. so is this theory saying that the Disciple John is Lazarus? Or that Lazarus wrote John but John was someone else? Because the bible says that John Zebedee had a brother James. And Lazarus had a sister Martha but no mention of a brother. They don't seem to be the same person, and no other gospel mentions an apostle Lazarus.
              The theory is that John did not write the gospel; Lazarus did.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                The theory is that John did not write the gospel; Lazarus did.
                if so, and he was "the disciple Jesus loved" then you would expect the other gospels to mention him, especially at the last supper. or is the theory that "the disciple Jesus loved" is not the author of John? This is very confuserating.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  if so, and he was "the disciple Jesus loved" then you would expect the other gospels to mention him, especially at the last supper. or is the theory that "the disciple Jesus loved" is not the author of John? This is very confuserating.
                  It's based on the description of Lazarus as "he whom you love [Jesus] love" in John 11:3 being the "Beloved Disciple"

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In the parallel accounts Peter and John run to the tomb. John 20:2-10. Luke 24:9-12.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Traditionally it was John. in other Gospels we find that all disciples but his Mother, Mary and Martha, and another had left Him. This is called the Disciple whom Jesus Loved. The Gospel of John is written more about the miracles and allegorical teachings of Jesus. Now by Jewish Tradition, He would have handed the care of His mother over to the closest male relative who was not present. However John was at the crucificixion. All others had fled in fear and Jesus himself even predicited this. Lazarus was not mentioned as an Apostle, John was. It would be the closest conclusion that the person was John "Behold your mother, Woman behold your Son."
                      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        wait. so is this theory saying that the Disciple John is Lazarus?
                        No. Witherington's theory claims:
                        1. The disciple John (John bar Zebedee) did not write the book we call the Gospel According to John.
                        2. John bar Zebedee and John of Patmos were not the same person.
                        3. Lazarus wrote most of the book known as the Gospel According to John.
                        4. John of Patmos redacted Lazarus's work into its final form, and that is why it came to be known as the Gospel According to John.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can't find John named in those passages. Which version are you working from?

                          While I have long felt that the disciple whom Jesus loved was probably Lazarus ... it never occurred to me that he might have written the gospel. Right now, I'm inclined to the view that it was a collaborative effort based on the preaching of John, but I'd like to see evidence to the contrary if it is available.

                          Jn. 13.1 in fact says it was a meal that transpired before the Passover meal.
                          http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...ElUbLg4ujh1.99
                          Incorrect, and an error so basic might impact on validity - though a single error is by no means cause to ignore the whole.
                          Last edited by tabibito; 06-24-2017, 03:55 AM.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            Incorrect, and an error so basic might impact on validity - though a single error is by no means cause to ignore the whole.

                            Witherington is a world class scholar. He's not really the type to make such an obvious error, so rather than assuming that what he said was written in error, it might be wiser to see what he and other NT scholars actually say about the subject. The view that the meal eaten in John 13 was not the Passover meal is defended by a number of NT scholars including C. K. Barrett, RT France, Raymond Brown and others.


                            By the way, tabibito, it appears that you have a lot of issues with the quote tags. It's sometimes hard to see who you're quoting, because you don't capture or add their name to the tag. In this case, I assumed that you were quoting someone in the thread, but then I realized that the link you left in the quote was supposed to indicate where you got the quote. What might help in the future when you're citing a source is using the cite tags. It's just like the quote tag, but you use the word "cite" instead.

                            So, to use your example, it might be better to do something like,

                            [cite=Was Lazarus the Beloved Disciple? by Bill Witherington]Jn. 13.1 in fact says it was a meal that transpired before the Passover meal.[|cite]

                            Which would look like this,


                            Source: Was Lazarus the Beloved Disciple? by Bill Witherington

                            Jn. 13.1 in fact says it was a meal that transpired before the Passover meal.

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              By the way, tabibito, it appears that you have a lot of issues with the quote tags. It's sometimes hard to see who you're quoting, because you don't capture or add their name to the tag. In this case, I assumed that you were quoting someone in the thread, but then I realized that the link you left in the quote was supposed to indicate where you got the quote. What might help in the future when you're citing a source is using the cite tags. It's just like the quote tag, but you use the word "cite" instead.


                              It's also a good idea to use cite-tags when you're citing a source since they "nest" inside quote-tags, unlike quote-tags themselves*, which means the citation won't disappear when someone quotes your post.









                              * I still have no idea why this forum doesn't support nesting quote-tags. It would be so much easier to keep track of the discussions here if the quotes nested about 3-4 levels back.

                              Comment

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