Originally posted by Sparko
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JimL's Case for the Impeachment of Trump
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"Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, AGAIN, I ask....
what specific charge would you use to start impeachment proceedings against Trump?
The thing is, Republicans control Congress, and there is little chance that they will agree to impeachment hearings, at least not until the evidence becomes so undeniable and the American people demand it. So, the investigation will go on, and we shall see where else it leads. My guess is that Trump is in this a lot deeper than we so far know for certain.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWe can start with obstruction of justice. Trump admitted that he fired Comey because of the Russian Investigation-thats obstruction of Justice. Trump admitted to that in his interview with Lester Holt, he also admitted it to his Russian spy buddies in the White House the day after he fired Comey. He also tried to intimidate a witness by suggesting that he had taped his conversations with Comey-thats obstruction of Justice. Then you have his violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution for which he is already being sued. Personally I believe it goes much deeper than that, of course, because you don't try to impede an investigation, knowing the illegality of the act, unless you are afraid it will somehow connect back to you. We also know that Trump is a pathological liar, perhaps you've seen the recent NY Times article enumerating his lies, and though lying is not in and of itself an impeachable offense, no american, or ally for that matter, should want such a person to be anywhere near the White House.
The thing is, Republicans control Congress, and there is little chance that they will agree to impeachment hearings, at least not until the evidence becomes so undeniable and the American people demand it.
So, the investigation will go on, and we shall see where else it leads.
My guess is that Trump is in this a lot deeper than we so far know for certain.
So, how bout just backing off a bit, and maintain the position you just espoused --- let's see where the FACTS actually lead, and stop jumping to conclusions.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostGood answer. I feel a little less certain MM is going to say the same but that may be due to my own biased take on this. Now, at least he will be tempted to agree with you.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostMy entirely cynical take on this is that I suspect you're trying to make this about MM in order to take a little pressure off your buddy JimL. You may be right about MM, but this thread isn't about him.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd I appreciate the fact that JimL is honestly engaging and making an attempt to defend his position.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostMy guess is that Trump is in this a lot deeper than we so far know for certain.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Charles View PostOriginally posted by SparkoI do. anything is possible. But I want to see evidence FIRST, not after he is "convicted" by the public. But again, even if he did collude with the Russians, unless he conspired and helped them do the hacking he didn't commit a crime. But anything is possible. If the evidence proves he committed an actual federal crime, then I will believe he is guilty.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostUm... my stance has always been that if Trump is guilty then show me the evidence, and I will concede that he's guilty. It's certainly possible that he's guilty of colluding with Russia, just as it's generally possible that any of us are guilty of committing a crime, but given the complete lack of evidence, I think it's more likely that Trump is innocent.
Yeah, I told you this was Mountain Man's position because he's stated it several times.
At this point I have to assume you've not been reading Mountain Man's posts, but rather, a CNN summation of his posts.
Don't doubt me again or I'll be offended.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWell, he's making the attempt. I'm still seeing a whole lot of assertion without a whole lot (as none whatsoever) of commensurate support, though.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Charles View PostDo you acknowledge this, Mountain Man?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostAhem... Charles?
Yeah, I told you this was Mountain Man's position because he's stated it several times.
At this point I have to assume you've not been reading Mountain Man's posts, but rather, a CNN summation of his posts.
Don't doubt me again or I'll be offended.
But I found it interesting to read MM's answer. The reason I asked was because I don't remember seeing him taking any "smoke" as even the slightest indication of a possibility of anything. He is still talking about a "complete lack" of evidence. (Not that i want to bother trying to explain again, again, again, again and again that this is not the conclusion of what Clapper said )Last edited by Charles; 06-28-2017, 02:52 AM."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostBut I found it interesting to read MM's answer. The reason I asked was because I don't remember seeing him taking any "smoke" as even the slightest indication of a possibility of anything. He is still talking about a "complete lack" of evidence. (Not that i want to bother trying to explain again, again, again, again and again that this is not the conclusion of what Clapper said )
(Emphasis mine.)
If there was a smoking gun, it's almost impossible we wouldn't know about it given the months of investigation, prevalence of leaks, and official, on the record testimony. The only "smoke" we've seen is the smoke and mirrors from the Democrats.
So to summarize my position, it's possible that Trump is guilty, but it's more likely he's innocent. This strikes me as both obvious and reasonable. But then, I'm not a braindead liberal.Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-28-2017, 07:10 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWell he ‘amened’ the post along with a raft of the usual (Trump can do no wrong) suspects. It’s the position just about all of us holds, and said so several times. Namely 1: That Trump could be guilty and 2: That evidence could be discovered that proves he is guilty (and especially 3: We're desperately hoping that he IS guilty). Given that there is certain evidence that Russia hacked the election and that there are several investigations in train plus a Special Counsel appointed, there is no other position to take. Not that you would know it with the ‘huffing ‘n puffing’ and dog-like devotion of the ever faithful MM. Sad!Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostOGP, that had to be sarcasm on the part of CP.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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