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The flaws of NT-based morality

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Sure, however cows have extremely long memories, wheres your 2 year old grandson will forget everything that happens to him at that age.
    Cows are not even self aware, two year olds are.

    Yes I'm a vegetarian, because I think killing animals is wrong. I would say that a human infant would surpass a cow in intelligence somewhere between 6 months and 4 years in age - I'm not a childhood development expert so I am hesitant to give a narrower window than that, but perhaps around 2 years of age on average?
    Yet you support infanticide up the three years old - correct?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Cows are not even self aware, two year olds are.
      ? Of course cows are self aware. Not sure what you mean by this.

      Yet you support infanticide up the three years old - correct?
      I think taking life at any level of consciousness and intelligence is morally wrong, but that it is less wrong the less intelligent/aware the entity is. The point at which parents killing their infant is morally worse IMO than them killing their cow is the point at which the infant has more mind/intelligence/consciousness etc than the cow. I can't imagine a good motivation for a parent wanting to kill their child at that age, and I wouldn't want to make it legal. Generally I would think that the first month after birth should be an adequate time-frame to assess whether the child has very serious medical issues such that letting it die seems warranted, and if I were writing a law that is a time-frame I would consider for allowing it.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #93
        Cows are domesticated animals, they literally exist to provide us with things like meat and milk. Without humans raising them for our own use they would not have an ecological niche at all. Predators would eat them all. Plus, if Starlight feels no special kinship with other humans, then he's completely broken, not just as a human being but as a biological organism.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          ? Of course cows are self aware. Not sure what you mean by this.
          No, cows do not past the mirror test, necessary to demonstrate self-recognition, a two year old would, some other animals do also.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            Your post should ruffle the feathers of anyone who loves the truth.
            Ah yes, truth according to Darth Executor: Thumb your nose at scholars, and realize that Israelites were racist, because God is racist, and you should racist too!

            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            Anyway, this doesn't cause me any trouble, because I don't believe someone should mistreat foreigners or people of other ethnicities

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              Ah yes, truth according to Darth Executor: Thumb your nose at scholars,
              Scholar or not, he's not stating anything academic, he's stating a dubious opinion with no substantiation that, even if it were true, does nothing to support your core case because it would still be a form of inequality, just one aimed at only transients rather than transients and residents.

              and realize that Israelites were racist, because God is racist, and you should racist too!
              It's amazing how nobody noticed your interpretation for nearly two thousand years until the advent of modern liberalism and the rise of anti-rayciss hegemony in the last 40 years or so. It's almost as if it didn't exist.

              Nobody cares what you believe. There isn't a single person on the planet who can claim I mistreated them based on their ethnic group or immigrant status. Then again, slandering people has never really been beneath you so I doubt that would even make a difference. You have a demon to serve and you will do so by all means necessary.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Scholar or not, he's not stating anything academic, he's stating a dubious opinion with no substantiation that, even if it were true, does nothing to support your core case because it would still be a form of inequality, just one aimed at only transients rather than transients and residents.
                No, he's not stating a dubious opinion. He's telling you that there's a very real difference between a transient foreigner, and a resident alien. He's offering his informed opinion on the sort of transient foreigner that might be in mind in scripture. And it absolutely does support my core case because it directly deals with the treatment of foreigners living among Israelites.

                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                It's amazing how nobody noticed your interpretation for nearly two thousand years until the advent of modern liberalism and the rise of anti-rayciss hegemony in the last 40 years or so. It's almost as if it didn't exist.
                Source: John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible, published 1748-1763

                Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury
                To any Gentile, though some Jewish writers except the Edomites and Ishmaelites, as being brethren, and restrain it to the seven nations of Canaan; but it seems to design one that was not an Israelite, or a proselyte of righteousness, and especially to regard such that traded and merchandised, as the Gentiles very much did, and especially their neighbours the Phoenicians; and of such it was lawful to take interest, as it was but reasonable, when they gained much by the money they lent them, and as it is but reasonable should be the case among Christians in such circumstances; this is to be regarded not as a precept, but as a permission:

                © Copyright Original Source



                Source: John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes Commentary, Published 1754

                Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother — To an Israelite. They held their estates immediately from God, who while he distinguished them from all other people, might have ordered, had he pleased, that they should have all things in common. But instead of that, and in token of their joint interest in the good land he had given them, he only appointed them, as there was occasion, to lend to one another without interest. This among them would be little or no loss to the lender, because their land was so divided, their estates so settled, and there was so little a merchandise among them, that it was seldom or never they had occasion to borrow any great sums, but only for the subsistence of their family, or some uncommon emergence. But they might lend to a stranger upon usury, who was supposed to live by trade, and therefore got by what he borrowed: in which case 'tis just, the lender should share in the gain. This usury therefore is not oppressive: for they might not oppress a stranger.

                © Copyright Original Source



                Source: Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, published 1871

                19, 20. Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother . . . Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury--The Israelites lived in a simple state of society, and hence they were encouraged to lend to each other in a friendly way without any hope of gain. But the case was different with foreigners, who, engaged in trade and commerce, borrowed to enlarge their capital, and might reasonably be expected to pay interest on their loans. Besides, the distinction was admirably conducive to keeping the Israelites separate from the rest of the world.

                © Copyright Original Source



                I can only imagine what sort of dystopian Twilight Zone fantasy world you live in to throw away the last 40 years of critical Biblical scholarship because you're biting your nails over some super liberal conspiracy theory that you fear has infected even the most Evangelical scholars.

                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Nobody cares what you believe. There isn't a single person on the planet who can claim I mistreated them based on their ethnic group or immigrant status. Then again, slandering people has never really been beneath you so I doubt that would even make a difference. You have a demon to serve and you will do so by all means necessary.
                Eh, you care, or else you wouldn't have replied. If you don't want people to think you're for the mistreatment of foreigners and people of other ethnicities, you might think about dropping the racist rants, and goofy macho posturing. You knee-jerk anytime the subject of racial equality comes up, especially when it's suggested that scripture doesn't endorse racism. You can accuse me of serving demons if you like, but I am not ashamed. I know the one in whom my faith is set.
                Last edited by Adrift; 06-29-2017, 01:16 AM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  See my post above.
                  Right, again there's only one human race. If you ever bother to read scientific literature, or peer review publications, you will see that when "race" is mentioned it's in inverted commas just as I have done in this thread, because it is not an objective reality in biology, sociology, or anything else. It's an old primitive belief that people different to you are fundamentally different somehow, and that's simply not true.

                  There are different languages, different cultures, different ethnicities, different beliefs and world-views, etc, but we're all the same human race.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    I can only imagine what sort of dystopian Twilight Zone fantasy world you live in to throw away the last 40 years of critical Biblical scholarship because you're biting your nails over some super liberal conspiracy theory that you fear has infected even the most Evangelical scholars.
                    Conservative evangelicals pretty much lead the charge in being wounded by liberal disapproval and making sure no liberal ever thinks they did anything wrong like racism (even though evangelicals generally map up nicely with all the slaveowner states). In some areas (like white knight feminism), they are actually worse than liberals. So thanks for the history lesson in conservative apologetics to liberalism.

                    Eh, you care, or else you wouldn't have replied.
                    I'm talking specifically about your opinion about me. I didn't reply for your benefit. There was actually no reason whatsoever to even bring me into this conversation, except that being the bitter loser that you are you can't stand the idea of someone like me contradicting you.

                    If you don't want people to think you're for the mistreatment of foreigners and people of other ethnicities,
                    Nobody who matters to me thinks that, and if any of them do they can take their concerns to me in private. As far as I can tell, you're the only one who cares about it, not because you care about me but because you're worried I'll make you or Christianity look bad to people who hate it.

                    you might think about dropping the racist rants, and violent macho posturing. You knee-jerk anytime the subject of racial equality comes up, especially when it's suggested that scripture doesn't endorse racism.
                    You might need to drop the gaslighting, it doesn't work on me, especially when coming from an approval seeking loser like you. And scripture most certainly endorses some degree of racism, and from none other than Jesus Christ Himself. Like I said in the other thread, because it's Jesus people like you make all sorts of excuses about the way he talked to a woman of another ethnic group. If it was a modern day white male talking to a black woman you would be all over him with your obnoxious virtue signalling. You know this and it angers you to no end that your idol is being immolated in such an efficient manner.

                    You can accuse me of serving demons if you like, but I am not ashamed. I know the one in whom my faith is set.
                    "The wicked flee when noone pursues but the brave are bold as a lion"

                    Why bring up that you are not ashamed, when nobody accused you of it? I suspect it's because you are, in fact, ashamed. The actual Jesus is like having Rush Limbaugh at your family meeting. Too embarassing. So you dress Him up with your nonsense.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                      Right, again there's only one human race. If you ever bother to read scientific literature, or peer review publications, you will see that when "race" is mentioned it's in inverted commas just as I have done in this thread, because it is not an objective reality in biology, sociology, or anything else.

                      ...

                      There are different languages, different cultures, different ethnicities, different beliefs and world-views, etc, but we're all the same human race.
                      Race is mentioned in inverted commas because it's a toxic word, not because there are no biological differences among the human groups that are called "races". That there are biological differences should be obvious, because those differences were specifically catalogued based on indisputable genetic traits like facial structure, hair shape/color, skin color, etc. Good luck claiming race is not an objective reality in biology if you ever need a bone marrow transplant.

                      It's an old primitive belief that people different to you are fundamentally different somehow, and that's simply not true.
                      We are fundamentally different, and that's before we even get into biology, atheist. Your entire worldview is anathema to my existence. I can conceptualize it at an abstract level but I have no idea what an atheist would think like. It is entirely alien to me. And from my experience most atheists are even less capable of imagining the reverse.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        Race is mentioned in inverted commas because it's a toxic word, not because there are no biological differences among the human groups that are called "races". That there are biological differences should be obvious, because those differences were specifically catalogued based on indisputable genetic traits like facial structure, hair shape/color, skin color, etc. Good luck claiming race is not an objective reality in biology if you ever need a bone marrow transplant.
                        Right, again "race" is not a biological reality. It's just a primitive ancient belief about people different to your own group. What you're citing has nothing to do with "race", and could be applied better to ethnicity - but even then no one thinks that ethnicities are static groups of people. Explain to me how eight different ancient Canaanite cities contained eight distinctly different "races" of people? Like I said, it makes no objective sense. It's just an "us" and "them" comparison. That's how certain customs probably started, like "our race doesn't eat pig".

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          ? Of course cows are self aware. Not sure what you mean by this.
                          They haven't passed the mirror test?

                          Toddlers seem to become aware that mirrors show themselves at around 2 years old. I'm not sure that cattle ever do.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            Conservative evangelicals pretty much lead the charge in being wounded by liberal disapproval and making sure no liberal ever thinks they did anything wrong like racism (even though evangelicals generally map up nicely with all the slaveowner states). In some areas (like white knight feminism), they are actually worse than liberals. So thanks for the history lesson in conservative apologetics to liberalism.



                            I'm talking specifically about your opinion about me. I didn't reply for your benefit. There was actually no reason whatsoever to even bring me into this conversation, except that being the bitter loser that you are you can't stand the idea of someone like me contradicting you.



                            Nobody who matters to me thinks that, and if any of them do they can take their concerns to me in private. As far as I can tell, you're the only one who cares about it, not because you care about me but because you're worried I'll make you or Christianity look bad to people who hate it.



                            You might need to drop the gaslighting, it doesn't work on me, especially when coming from an approval seeking loser like you. And scripture most certainly endorses some degree of racism, and from none other than Jesus Christ Himself. Like I said in the other thread, because it's Jesus people like you make all sorts of excuses about the way he talked to a woman of another ethnic group. If it was a modern day white male talking to a black woman you would be all over him with your obnoxious virtue signalling. You know this and it angers you to no end that your idol is being immolated in such an efficient manner.
                            It's always fascinating to watch you bury yourself in these little exchanges of ours.

                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            "The wicked flee when noone pursues but the brave are bold as a lion"

                            Why bring up that you are not ashamed, when nobody accused you of it? I suspect it's because you are, in fact, ashamed. The actual Jesus is like having Rush Limbaugh at your family meeting. Too embarassing. So you dress Him up with your nonsense.
                            Or, better yet, I'm simply citing a familiar Bible passage.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                              well yeah, that's literally how they are defined. tribes were (and are) mostly genetic lineages. Scientists today usually use the word "populaton", rather than the politically loaded "race", but the concept is the same.
                              There were 12 tribes of Israel. They were all the same ethnic group. There are many nations in the middle east that are all the same ethnic group and race.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                Please don't disingenuously pretend to others that I'm not 100% consistent on this. As I've said dozens of times here, I believe the important thing is level of mental function. Thus the point at which having an abortion is worse than killing an animal is the point at which the mental function of the fetus is higher than the animal. Cows have more mental function, more sense of self, more memories, more intelligence, than a human fetus, hence killing a cow is morally worse than abortion. Clear?
                                no. I was not talking about "fetuses" but your previous claim that it should be legal for parents to kill children up to the age of around 3. So please don't disingenuously try to move the goal posts. I said "toddler" not "fetus"

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