Originally posted by Mountain Man
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The flaws of NT-based morality
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, and again what you view as evil is still relative and meaningless. You are making my case.
So you admit that you can not demonstrate that God is a myth - thank you.
Nonsense Tass, in your world our survival is of no more consequence than the survival of past extinct species - which is zero.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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You're so clueless, I wonder if you leave notes around your house reminding yourself to breath.
Originally posted by Tassmoron View PostIf God’s moral nature is based upon
Originally posted by Tassmoron View Posti.e. why is something “good”, it is good because God said it is.
Don't forget to breath...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSubstitute "circle" and "roundness" with "God" and "goodness" and maybe you'll begin to understand.
And you could basically substitute it with anything including "Thor", "Mao" or whatever. And since your line of "reasoning" cuts of the part about justification, there is nothing to point to whithin those systems that would contradict the idea that "Allah", "Thor" or "Mao" was the absolute standard.
By the way I have never seen a perfect circle. And yet I know what the idea about the perfect circle is and how it would be defined, so I am not bying into the idea that we do not determine it on external standard on roundness but on the actual circles we see."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'm going to stop you right there, because I never said or implied that God's nature was based on anything. Did you really not understand the circle analogy?"Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThe analogy does not work. Sorry to say. See my post about it above.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd still Charles we all wait for you, with bated breath, to produce a definition of goodness that doesn't beg the question!
As I have also often pointed out simple definitions, simple answers to difficult questions rather often will not work. So, perhaps, a second reading will make you see the points?"Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI think you have misunderstood quite many points regarding this, seer. My criticism of MM is both that his analogy does not work because it is a simplification of our understanding and that it could be used to justify just about anything. My criticism of your line of reasoning is that it is circular. You have a subjective preference for a circular position that I don't share. My position is founded on something rather different as pointed out again and again in this thread: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...tion-of-ethics
As I have also often pointed out simple definitions, simple answers to difficult questions rather often will not work. So, perhaps, a second reading will make you see the points?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Charles View PostSubstitute "circle" and "roundness" with "Allah" and "goodness" and maybe you'll begin to understand why I point to the fact that what you are pointing to could lead to all kinds of evil and absurd consequences and it is and remains faith based. Because that is the line that extremist muslims follow. Starting to understand?
And you could basically substitute it with anything including "Thor", "Mao" or whatever. And since your line of "reasoning" cuts of the part about justification, there is nothing to point to whithin those systems that would contradict the idea that "Allah", "Thor" or "Mao" was the absolute standard.
By the way I have never seen a perfect circle. And yet I know what the idea about the perfect circle is and how it would be defined, so I am not bying into the idea that we do not determine it on external standard on roundness but on the actual circles we see.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLook, I know you reject theism. Fine, but that's not the point of this debate. The point is, is theism internally consistent, and, assuming it's true, can it account for an "ought"? The answers, of course, are yes, and yes. It really is OK for you to say, "I understand your position even if I fundamentally disagree with it." Nobody will expect you to resign from the "Atheist Kool Kids Klub". Trust me.
Of course the next step of the debate is, given that theism is internally consistent, do we have any reason to think it's true? But let's finish with the first step before we take another. OK?Last edited by Mountain Man; 09-12-2017, 07:57 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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