Turning the Tables: LDS and Genesis 1-11

[One Bad Pig]

What answer did you give to:

If someone is considering joining your branch of Christendom, would it scare them off if you told them up front, right at the beginning "Many experts think our belief in a worldwide flood (with one family saving themselves and all animal life from God's holocaust in a big boat) was plagiarized from fables that pre-date the Bible's Noah account" ?

Yes
No

What answer did you give to:

If you told them "Many experts think our belief that God created Planet Earth and the whole rest of the universe less than a million years ago, is pure nonsense" would it tend to dissuade them from continuing down the path to Evangelical-hood?



Yes
No

I didn't see the post where you gave an answer to those questions.

Here is a bonus question:

What, officially, must a person do in order to become a Christian?

Since Jeff keeps bringing this up against Evangelicals, I thought I'd start a thread to ask what LDS think about creationism and the flood of Noah's day.

Do LDS generally not believe in a young Earth or a global flood? If not, why not? Further, would LDS be open to applying the same exegetical standards to uniquely LDS scriptures?

[nrajeff]

Interesting that no answers to my questions have been forthcoming.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting that no answers to my questions have been forthcoming.

NO ANSWERS? Or not the answers you want?

[nrajeff]

Normal person: "True or false: 2+2=4"
CP-type person: "Green."
Normal person: "Please answer the question."
CP-type person: "I did answer it."
Normal person: "For it to qualify as an answer to the question, the response should either consist of the word "true" or the word "false."
CP-type person: "I answered the question--it was just not the answer you want."
(Normal person then realizes that CP-type person is determined to substitute game-playing for actual answers.)

[Cow Poke]

Normal person: "True or false: 2+2=4"
CP-type person: "Green."
Normal person: "Please answer the question."
CP-type person: "I did answer it."
Normal person: "For it to qualify as an answer to the question, the response should either consist of the word "true" or the word "false."
CP-type person: "I answered the question--it was just not the answer you want."
(Normal person then realizes that CP-type person is determined to substitute game-playing for actual answers.)

I TOLD you I've leared a lot from you guys!

[nrajeff]

Lol

[Cow Poke]

Lol

Seriously, Jeff, I think I answered the questions, and woud be glad to clarify or expand if there's something you actually want to know.
I really don't have any intention to play the "forced yes or no" questions.

[One Bad Pig]

Run away, brave Sir Jeff.

[nrajeff]

run away, brave sir jeff[ cp

fify

[Cow Poke]

fify

I'm not running away from ANYTHING, Jeff.... if you have something to discusss, I'm all in!
I'm not playing silly yes-no games.

I actually added some explanation in the other thread trying to dicuss this politely.

Are you wanting to play games, or are you wanting to discuss?

[One Bad Pig]

fify

Are you saying that CP is Mormon?

[nrajeff]

I'm not running away from ANYTHING, Jeff...

except an honest look at your double standards.

if you have something to discusss, I'm all in!

Great! Awesome! Let's discuss the reasons why you are more than willing (eager, even) to say "If people knew all your beliefs from the beginning, they would think twice about joining" to the LDS---but you're less than willing (reluctant, even) to see your profound statement applied to your own "faith tradition" Let's discuss that, finally, after it's seemed like pulling teeth to get you anywhere near discussing it.

I'm not playing silly yes-no games.

Adduce some valid reasons why you feel it's silly to ask for your opinion regarding whether investigators into your beliefs would have 2nd thoughts if they knew the whole enchilada from the git-go, please.

Are you wanting to play games, or are you wanting to discuss?

I am wanting to FINISH the games that your side STARTED and then ABANDONED once the tables got turned and the game was no longer fun for YOU.

[Cow Poke]

except an honest look at your double standards.

In your mind, Jeff, but that's OK

Great! Awesome! Let's discuss the reasons why you are more than willing (eager, even) to say "If people knew all your beliefs from the beginning, they would think twice about joining" to the LDS---but you're less than willing (reluctant, even) to see your profound statement applied to your own "faith tradition" Let's discuss that, finally, after it's seemed like pulling teeth to get you anywhere near discussing it.

You are being quite dishonest, Jeff -- The only thing I refuse to do is to answer forced "yes no" questions where the answer is more than a "yes" or "no", and I HAVE been answering.

The problem is that you're coming up with horribly bad examples. And I've tried to explain this to you. I have never EVER had anybody argue YEC or Global flood in ANY context with regards to "staying in the faith". Beyond that, I have explained that there's a difference between "joining my Church" and "becoming a Christian". When you calm down a bit, we can discuss this more fully.

Adduce some valid reasons why you feel it's silly to ask for your opinion regarding whether investigators into your beliefs would have 2nd thoughts if they knew the whole enchilada from the git-go?

The childish "I demand a yes or no answer", Jeff --- that's what I was talking about.

I am wanting to FINISH the games that your side STARTED and then ABANDONED once the tables got turned and the game was no longer fun for YOU.

No, Jeff -- I keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring --- I'm fully prepared to discuss the issues, but not in your forced "yes / no" format.

Again, Jeff -- here's the deal -- how bout let's actually discuss the issue.
I have pointed out that the "joining my church" issue is not necessarily the same as "joining my faith" issue ... so, which one are you talking about?

How bout we start there?

[One Bad Pig]

Could we please discuss the answers to Jeff's questions in HIS thread? This thread is for LDS members to provide answers. Thanks.

[onefour1]

Could we please discuss the answers to Jeff's questions in HIS thread? This thread is for LDS members to provide answers. Thanks.

I believe that the 7 creation periods of Genesis, Moses, and The Book of Abraham happened not according to our time on this earth but according to the Lord's time which is 1000 years of our time to 1 day to the Lord.

2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

JST, 2 Peter 3:8
8 But concerning the coming of the Lord, beloved, I would not have you ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Abraham 3:4
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

D&C 130:4-5
4 In answer to the question—Is not the reckoning of God’s time, angel’s time, prophet’s time, and man’s time, according to the planet on which they reside?
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it

Abraham 5:13
13 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the time that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die. Now I, Abraham, saw that it was after the Lord’s time, which was after the time of Kolob; for as yet the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning.


A careful reading of Genesis will show that the earth in relation to our current solar system was not in effect when God began counting the days in Genesis 1.

Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

From the above verses we see that the earth in relation to the sun and moon and stars was the creation of the 4th day. This leads to the conclusion that the days of creation in Genesis were not reckoned according to the our time, ie one revolution of the earth. Verse 14 tells us that the light that divided the day from the night, ie the sun, was not there before the 4th day of creation. So what light was being used on the first day of creation? We believe that the earth was created near to where God resides and then placed in its solar system on the 4th day of creation. We believe that the creation periods of Genesis were after the LORD's time, which was 1000 years of our time being 1 day with the Lord. When God told Adam that if he partook of tree of knowledge of good and evil, he would die that very day.

Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

But we know that Adam lived according to our reckoning to be 930 years old.

Genesis 5:5
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Thus if the the creation periods of Genesis were according to our current time, then Adam would not have died on the very day that he partook of the fruit. But if one day to the Lord is 1000 years of our time, then Adam indeed died on the same day that he partook of the fruit.

Thus I believe that the creation periods that are found in Genesis are each a day unto the Lord which is equivalent to 1000 of our years.