The Laws of Logic Imply God's Existence

[ST Mannew]

The sense you make logically leads to Totalitarian Theocracy of TRUTH.where everyone else is to be feared because they hate the TRUTH.

Off with their heads and burn'um at the stake.

I never said any of these things, you have reduced the truth to a ambiguous concept that is unknowable, and you are wrong. No “Off with their heads and burn'um at the stake”, or anything else, you are just wrong. Your defense is a copout. You have rendered judgment on yourself already, and the consequence of your error is your unbelief. You say in your mind that truth is not knowable, and then complain that you don’t know the truth. Hmmm, I wonder why you don’t know the truth? And anyone then who says then that God is knowable, you say they are wrong, how do you know they are wrong, are you them? Have you had their experience, this is the only way you could know this, pure pretense. God is known through the truth, in the truth is found the realization of God. And Jesus Christ is the truth. If you believe this, then God can be realized by you. And don’t answer with “I don’t believe this”, as though that is an answer, you actually have to presume it to be true to have really tried it for its truthfulness.

[seer]

The sense you make logically leads to Totalitarian Theocracy of TRUTH.where everyone else is to be feared because they hate the TRUTH.

Off with their heads and burn'um at the stake.

Ok, so it is wrong for me to say that you hate the truth but it's ok you you to suggest that I want to cut your head off?

[ST Mannew]

Ok, so it is wrong for me to say that you hate the truth but it's ok you you to suggest that I want to cut your head off?

This is what I don’t get, what basis is he making this argument on? Where does he get that we want to do some kind of harm to him? And my argument and yours also to him is nothing more than to say; Shuny you already rendered judgment on yourself, and the consequence of your error is your unbelief. You believe that truth is not knowable, and then complain that you don’t know the truth. And then you wonder why? This is why; because you think that the truth is unknowable, that’s why, and your excuse and your denial are the same thing. Shuny your argument is completely irrational; to say that the truth is not knowable is like you saying to yourself ‘I am not knowable’. Think about it, if the truth is not knowable, then how are we even known to ourselves? The truth is what makes us known to ourselves. If you think that the truth is unknowable then how is it possible to know that you even exist? Shuny, you break the 3 laws of thought all at the same time with such a erroneous “belief”, actually the fact is that this is not a “belief”, it is the error of unbelief.

[shunyadragon]

Ok, so it is wrong for me to say that you hate the truth

Hate speech implies the following, as it has done may times in history.

. . . but it's ok you you to suggest that I want to cut your head off?

[seer]

Hate speech implies the following, as it has done may times in history.

Nonsense, I have thought this way for 22+ years and never harmed a soul. As a matter of fact, as scripture teaches, I go out of my way to be kind to my fellow man. And the fact is Shuny, you do hate the exclusive message of the bible. But that does not, in any way, give me permission to harm you. As a matter of fact I pray that you repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior. What could be more loving than my desire to see you saved and enter into everlasting life?

[shunyadragon]

Nonsense, I have thought this way for 22+ years and never harmed a soul. As a matter of fact, as scripture teaches, I go out of my way to be kind to my fellow man. And the fact is Shuny, you do hate the exclusive message of the bible. But that does not, in any way, give me permission to harm you. As a matter of fact I pray that you repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior. What could be more loving than my desire to see you saved and enter into everlasting life?

Nonsense. It is unfortunate that you have thought this way for 22+ years, but history is a clear record that 'hate speech' like this leads to violence against those it is directed to. If not by you others will clearly answer the call. For example you denied that this leads to that assumptions that this leads to the conclusion that 'Hate Truth, leads to 'Hate Christ and Christians,' but at least one other Christian in this thread reached that conclusion, and were steps closer to violence. Many say that the pen is mightier than the sword, but the spoken word for 'Hate' is probably the most dangerous of all. History is a clear witness for this conclusion.

It is a very logical conclusion.

[seer]

Nonsense. It is unfortunate that you have thought this way for 22+ years, but history is a clear record that 'hate speech' like this leads to violence against those it is directed to. If not by you others will clearly answer the call. For example you denied that this leads to that assumptions that this leads to the conclusion that 'Hate Truth, leads to 'Hate Christ and Christians,' but at least one other Christian in this thread reached that conclusion, and were steps closer to violence. Many say that the pen is mightier than the sword, but the spoken word for 'Hate' is probably the most dangerous of all. History is a clear witness for this conclusion.

It is a very logical conclusion.

Good grief man, grow a pair... You whine like a 12 year old girl...

[Cerebrum123]

Shunyadragon ,since when does saying someone ELSE hates something means that YOU hate THEM. This one doesn't make sense in the slightest. My brother hates certain things I like ,and that is in no way anywhere close to saying I hate HIM. Also DO you hate the "exclusive" claims that Christ made such as Him being the way ,the truth ,and the life? If this is so ,then your issue is with Christ who is indeed the truth. If you hate Christ's claim ,then since He IS the TRUTH ,then you HATE the TRUTH. I don't see how this is a hateful message towards you ,it's more just an indication of a problem you have. Very different from "hate speech".

[ST Mannew]

Nonsense. It is unfortunate that you have thought this way for 22+ years, but history is a clear record that 'hate speech' like this leads to violence against those it is directed to. If not by you others will clearly answer the call. For example you denied that this leads to that assumptions that this leads to the conclusion that 'Hate Truth, leads to 'Hate Christ and Christians,' but at least one other Christian in this thread reached that conclusion, and were steps closer to violence. Many say that the pen is mightier than the sword, but the spoken word for 'Hate' is probably the most dangerous of all. History is a clear witness for this conclusion. It is a very logical conclusion.

I don’t know if you hate the truth or not, but you seem you have been able to elevated yourself above everyone in your own mind; you are no different than anyone else? You admit that you don’t know the truth, but then you want people to listen to you, what for? You already admitted that you don’t know the truth; so what do you have to offer anyone that would be any use to them? You don’t make any sense in your unbelief. And who are you to speak for everyone else, then? You do not seem to understand that the truth is not exclusive, but is available to everyone without exception; all that is required is belief, how can you know that truth is true unless you first presume it to be true? And for you say that the very Thing that holds hope for anyone, for you to say it does not exist is the most hateful thing I have ever heard, you spread hate Shuny, every time you say that the truth is not knowable, you hurt someone with these hateful words. God reached out to us through the abyss in the form of the truth, and gave us a reference, the man of Jesus Christ so we may realize Him. And every time you say, God and the truth are not knowable; you say something that you have no way of knowing yourself, a self-refuting statement, but you say it anyway, this is pure arrogance on your part.

And everything I just said about you was and is sometimes still true about me, seer or any other who as confessed also, the only difference is that we have confessed it, or I should say He made us confess it.

Shuny in the last couple of hundred years it as not been the Christians who have done the killing, but the unbelievers, the Communists and Nazis. People who believe the same thing as you do; it is referred to as “unbelief”, and that is that the truth and God don’t exist or is not knowable. Same lie. Why do you spread such hate shuny? When you have no capacity in yourself to know if this is true or not, why do you keep repeating it? Explain how you know that the truth is not knowable?

[shunyadragon]

Good grief man, grow a pair... You whine like a 12 year old girl...

Good grief man, grow a pair... You whine like a 12 year old girl.

[shunyadragon]

Shuny in the last couple of hundred years it as not been the Christians who have done the killing, but the unbelievers, the Communists and Nazis. People who believe the same thing as you do; it is referred to as “unbelief”, and that is that the truth and God don’t exist or is not knowable. Same lie. Why do you spread such hate shuny? When you have no capacity in yourself to know if this is true or not, why do you keep repeating it? Explain how you know that the truth is not knowable?

Not so, the people of europe are predominately Christian then and now. The Jews were called Christ Killers in Passion plays all over Europe and Christians willingly did the majority of the killing.

[ST Mannew]

Not so, the people of europe are predominately Christian then and now. The Jews were called Christ Killers in Passion plays all over Europe and Christians willingly did the majority of the killing.

Communists and Nazis are not and were not Christians. The centerpiece for communism is atheism. "Religion is the opium of the people" Karl Marx

The only hope in which people have is that there is truth; therefore hope, peace and justice; without, there is just hopelessness. Stop the hate Shuny, and tell the truth, truth is available to all without exception.

[pancreasman]

Communists and Nazis are not and were not Christians. The centerpiece for communism is atheism. "Religion is the opium of the people" Karl Marx

The only hope in which people have is that there is truth; therefore hope, peace and justice; without, there is just hopelessness. Stop the hate Shuny, and tell the truth, truth is available to all without exception.

The Karl Marx quote doesn't mean what you think it means. Read the whole thing in context. Secondly, some Nazis DID believe they were Christians. You may claim that no 'True Christian' could be a Nazi and a Christian. I hope you recognize this as a No True Scotsman fallacy.

As to the 'hate' accusation, all of you (Shunny, Seer and you) are indulging yourselves in drama and hyperbole. People of good faith may legitimately disagree. To demonize people who disagree with you displays a lack of character.

[seer]

As to the 'hate' accusation, all of you (Shunny, Seer and you) are indulging yourselves in drama and hyperbole. People of good faith may legitimately disagree. To demonize people who disagree with you displays a lack of character.

I suspect you are correct pancreasman. I have been debating on line since 96 and I can't remember a man who gets my goat more than Shuny - perhaps that says more about me than him though...

[shunyadragon]

Communists and Nazis are not and were not Christians. The centerpiece for communism is atheism. "Religion is the opium of the people" Karl Marx

The only hope in which people have is that there is truth; therefore hope, peace and justice; without, there is just hopelessness. Stop the hate Shuny, and tell the truth, truth is available to all without exception.

90%+ of the European population is Christian, The persecution, pogrom, and ethnic cleansing before and during the Nazi and communist governments were carried out by Christians The writings of Martin Luther provided specific guidelines for the job, and the records and writings of the Roman Church and Orthodox Churches clearly taught the hatred to the population for centuries that was all that was needed. The Jews were considered 'Christ killers,' and widely performed passion plays further fuelled the hatred in Europe for the Jews

My description is based on the facts of history.