The Laws of Logic Imply God's Existence

[robrecht]

Yeah I can just feel the love over here.

“My wife's a psychotherapist (not mine BTW); she may be able to help.”

You said In siding with atheists against a Christian and thus in agreement with them, two atheists, how does it make you feel, to be in agreement with arguments and reasons that Hitler and Stalin used to murder 100s millions of Jews and Christians, does it make you feel good? Use your head man! Do you think being a Christian is about being popular with the very people who use the arguments that Hitler and Stalin did to kill Jews and Christians? Explain to me how this plays out in your mind please?

And stop with the fake prayer spiel will you, if you have not noticed, you are being rebuked.

My wife is a very loving and spiritual person. I'm sorry you can't feel my love for you as a brother in Christ. Maybe if you opened your heart a little more, you would be able to feel the love. It is genuine.

I am certainly not in agreement with arguments and reasons that Hitler and Stalin used to murder 100s millions of Jews and Christians amd others. It is shameful and scandalous that you would say such a thing.

The way this plays out in my mind and anyone else following this, if anyone is so unfortunate, is that you are just making up more false stuff about me and others.

Thanks, Robrecht

[ST Mannew]

Who is this Reader you keep talking to? You do realize only 4 people and a dog pay any attention to this nonsense, don't you?

Just like Nazis and Crusaders weren't TRUE Christians, Stalin was not a TRUE atheist. See? Isn't that a lame argument?

Tell everyone pancreasman, how does it make you feel, to use the same arguments and reasons that Hitler and Stalin used to murder 100s millions of people, does it make you feel good? You throw words out into space, why don’t you actually stop for a minute a think about what your words mean, and who else used the exact same arguments and what they did with these arguments, these same lies have caused the deaths of millions and you use them with such pride. What kind of a person does this?

[ST Mannew]

My wife is a very loving and spiritual person. I'm sorry you can't feel my love for you as a brother in Christ. Maybe if you opened your heart a little more, you would be able to feel the love. It is genuine.

I am certainly not in agreement with arguments and reasons that Hitler and Stalin used to murder 100s millions of Jews and Christians amd others. It is shameful and scandalous that you would say such a thing.

The way this plays out in my mind and anyone else following this, if anyone is so unfortunate, is that you are just making up more false stuff about me and others.

Thanks, Robrecht

Open my heart to what love? I see no love from you, I only see a depravity of the truth, and where there is no truth; there is no love. All I see from you is a self-deceived soul wallowing around in his own self-absorption, and maybe god will speak to you again through your little roadster, why don’t you ask him.

And yes you are, atheists and atheism (the centerpiece of Communism), and every argument Communists and Nazis used against Christians and Jews were the reasons they used to justify their actions in murdering millions of Christians and Jews, and you have in this thread many times sided with atheists against Christians so I am not lying, that just makes you a fool for not seeing it. The problem is that you have succeeded in lying to yourself, it is called self-deception.

You are a self-deceived; you just THINK you are a Christian. You want to be popular with the adversaries of truth in your desire to be popular, you were not successful in being popular amongst followers of Christ because they just point out your selfishness, so they are too judgmental, but atheists are all about the materialism, so you fit right in as an all-round good guy.

[robrecht]

Open my heart to what love? I see no love from you, I only see a depravity of the truth, and where there is no truth; there is no love. All I see from you is a self-deceived soul wallowing around in his own self-absorption, and maybe god will speak to you again through your little roadster, why don’t you ask him.

And yes you are, atheists and atheism (the centerpiece of Communism), and every argument Communists and Nazis used against Christians and Jews were the reasons they used to justify their actions in murdering millions of Christians and Jews, and you have in this thread many times sided with atheists against Christians so I am not lying, that just makes you a fool for not seeing it. The problem is that you have succeeded in lying to yourself, it is called self-deception.

You are a self-deceived; you just THINK you are a Christian. You want to be popular with the adversaries of truth in your desire to be popular, you were not successful in being popular amongst followers of Christ because they just point out your selfishness, so they are too judgmental, but atheists are all about the materialism, so you fit right in as an all-round good guy.

May God bless you, ST Mannew.

Thanks, Robrecht

[ST Mannew]

May God bless you, ST Mannew.

Thanks, Robrecht

And if you truly knew the truth, and want to pray for me, pray that I will have the courage to hang on and fight for the truth I now know I have in me. Can you pray for this for me?

[pancreasman]

Tell everyone pancreasman, how does it make you feel, to use the same arguments and reasons that Hitler and Stalin used to murder 100s millions of people, does it make you feel good? You throw words out into space, why don’t you actually stop for a minute a think about what your words mean, and who else used the exact same arguments and what they did with these arguments, these same lies have caused the deaths of millions and you use them with such pride. What kind of a person does this?

About the same as it feels for you to agree with the anti-antisemitism expresseds by various Christians through the ages. About the same as it feels for you to belong to a faith in whose name many people have killed. Of course, being rational, I recognize that just because some Christians behave badly that does not impugn Christianity as a whole. There are and have always been very wise and compassionate Christians whose scripturally supported faith leads them to proclaim peace and love in the most trying of circumstances. They are to be admired. In a similar way, I can admire the integrity of anyone regardless of their beliefs so long as they act with love and charity. Except for Nascar enthusiasts of course.

[robrecht]

And if you truly knew the truth, and want to pray for me, pray that I will have the courage to hang on and fight for the truth I now know I have in me. Can you pray for this for me?

Sure. As long as you fight with the power of love, as a witness to the love of God for all of us.

Thanks, Robrecht

[pancreasman]

Sure. As long as you fight with the power of love, as a witness to the love of God for all of us.

Thanks, Robrecht

Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

Eph 4:15

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

1 Peter 3:15

More Bible verses I find wise and illuminating. Obviously we should be concerned with truth, but our style in delivering what we think is the truth is vitally important. If it is necessary to advise us to 'speak the truth in love' then it must be possible to speak the truth without love. How does this work out practically? I think 1 Peter gives very practical instruction in what 'speaking the truth in love' ought to look like.

[ST Mannew]

About the same as it feels for you to agree with the anti-antisemitism expresseds by various Christians through the ages. About the same as it feels for you to belong to a faith in whose name many people have killed. Of course, being rational, I recognize that just because some Christians behave badly that does not impugn Christianity as a whole. There are and have always been very wise and compassionate Christians whose scripturally supported faith leads them to proclaim peace and love in the most trying of circumstances. They are to be admired. In a similar way, I can admire the integrity of anyone regardless of their beliefs so long as they act with love and charity. Except for Nascar enthusiasts of course.

It is irrational and a erroneous argument to say of someone who is a follower of Christ, who is Himself a Jew, that a follower of Christ can be “antisemitism expresseds by various Christians through the ages”, because if this was true what he was accusing a “christian” of doing then they would no longer be a Christians, would they? So your accusation does not apply. And using a reason people do the awful things that you have accused Christianity of being responsible for, is like saying that; Jesus Christ is responsible for all of these things.

This is what I believe, Jesus Christ is truth itself, and it is only in this Way that the realization of God is realized in a person. Simple as that, anymore difficult than this, we wouldn’t have a chance in hell. Tell me, what is love, how does or how can anyone know what love is unless they had a standard in which to follow that showed, them how to love? Anyone who believes that Christ is the truth knows what love is, because love is, the love of the truth. And why are you associating “Nascar enthusiasts” and Christians? Are you insinuating that all conservative Christians to be “Nascar enthusiasts”? You would be wrong,I don’t like Nascar, the UFC, boxing or any other macho show sports either.

Note: You will notice that pancreasman did not disavow himself from these atheist arguments used by communists to persecute Jews and Christians, but rather he tried to accuse me of hating Jews instead, even through I already have told him that I believe that a Jew is truth itself, now you can’t get much more complimentary than that can you?

[pancreasman]

You remember the topic? Anyone?

I have just been introduced to the apologetics of presuppositionalism. This thread, or more particularly, some arguments in this thread, do seem to follow a presupposiotnalist rationale. Basically, (and I'm a novice in understanding this) presuppositionalists would say that logic is embedded in the notion of a God, in particular the Christian God. Instead of arguing for this, they say that this presupposition is the only one that leads to a coherent world view. They would tend to argue that any other point of view leads to inconsistencies. The same approach is used with morality and knowledge. These three foundations are part of the Transcendental Argument for God. Any presuppositionalists feel free to correct my errors in understanding.

Further reading, including some critiques of presuppositionalism can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transce...istence_of_God

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presupp...al_apologetics

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/...positionalism/

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/...positionalism/

[pancreasman]

It is irrational and a erroneous argument to say of someone who is a follower of Christ, who is Himself a Jew, that a follower of Christ can be “antisemitism expresseds by various Christians through the ages”, because if this was true what he was accusing a “christian” of doing then they would no longer be a Christians, would they? So your accusation does not apply. And using a reason people do the awful things that you have accused Christianity of being responsible for, is like saying that; Jesus Christ is responsible for all of these things.

This is what I believe, Jesus Christ is truth itself, and it is only in this Way that the realization of God is realized in a person. Simple as that, anymore difficult than this, we wouldn’t have a chance in hell. Tell me, what is love, how does or how can anyone know what love is unless they had a standard in which to follow that showed, them how to love? Anyone who believes that Christ is the truth knows what love is, because love is, the love of the truth. And why are you associating “Nascar enthusiasts” and Christians? Are you insinuating that all conservative Christians to be “Nascar enthusiasts”? You would be wrong,I don’t like Nascar, the UFC, boxing or any other macho show sports either.

Note: You will notice that pancreasman did not disavow himself from these atheist arguments used by communists to persecute Jews and Christians, but rather he tried to accuse me of hating Jews instead, even through I already have told him that I believe that a Jew is truth itself, now you can’t get much more complimentary than that can you?

I wish you well and hope your journey through life is an enlightening one.

[ST Mannew]

Sure. As long as you fight with the power of love, as a witness to the love of God for all of us.

Thanks, Robrecht

Christ is love, then the love of truth is the true love. If you do not know and follow the truth, how can you know love?

[ST Mannew]

I wish you well and hope your journey through life is an enlightening one.

Now that's funny stuff. LOL

[ST Mannew]

Eph 4:15

1 Peter 3:15

More Bible verses I find wise and illuminating. Obviously we should be concerned with truth, but our style in delivering what we think is the truth is vitally important. If it is necessary to advise us to 'speak the truth in love' then it must be possible to speak the truth without love. How does this work out practically? I think 1 Peter gives very practical instruction in what 'speaking the truth in love' ought to look like.

Christ is the love of God, therefore the love of truth is the true love. If you do not know and follow the truth, or love the Truth, then how can you know how and what love is?

[pancreasman]

Christ is the love of God, therefore the love of truth is the true love. If you do not know and follow the truth, or love the Truth, then how can you know how and what love is?

As you must have surmised, communication between us is pointless. I do wish you well, but for now I'm placing you on ignore.