Thread: Adam: A View from the 1850s
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January 31st 2012, 12:30 AM #1
Adam: A View from the 1850s
Recently at my blog, I reprinted an article (reprinted again here in the first box below) that appeared in a major LDS periodical in the 10 December 1853 issue, and it expounds the author's views of Adam (and various related subjects) in the wake of a previous issue's publication of a controversial discourse by Brigham Young touching upon the same topic. Since I was able to draft a number of discussion questions for this article (reprinted in the second box below), it seems like something that could serve as useful fodder for discussion here. I'd like to put forward two primary strictures on participation: (1) I'd like everyone to be civil, respectful, honest, and engaged; and (2) I'd like us to avoid the oft-inevitable trap of getting bogged down in issues of 'officiality', or getting dragged too far into freestanding discussion of Brigham Young's aforementioned discourse. In relation to some of the issues here, that's been done to death. I think there's more than enough of interest here to command attention without resorting to that.
"If God has given [his people] such joy now, joy in their faith, in their hope, in love, in the truth of his scriptures, what kind of joy is he preparing for them at the end? If he feeds them like this on the journey, how will he feast them in their homeland?"--Augustine of Hippo
"It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading. A reading people will always be a knowing people."--John Wesley
"Wherever men are still theological there is still some chance of their being logical."--G. K. Chesterton
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January 31st 2012, 12:43 AM #2
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
This looks oddly familiar.....
"I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"
~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....
"Ergo qui natus die hodierna. Jesu, tibi sit gloria, patris aeterni verbum caro factum. Venite adoremus Dominum."
We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.~ 2 Nephi 25:26

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January 31st 2012, 10:33 AM #3
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Male - ChristianRe: Adam: A View from the 1850s
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January 31st 2012, 03:14 PM #4
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Male - MormonRe: Adam: A View from the 1850s
I must have missed it somewhere, but who exactly IS the author of this article? In other words who wrote it for the major LDS periodical? (I assume it is the Millennial Star, No. 48)
Since I don't believe Adam is the identity of our Heavenly Father, I think I it would be useless for me to comment much on this article. Sorry.
But in another sense, I suppose it could be argued from an LDS perspective that Adam, being the progenitor of the human family, and in lieu of his status as our great patriarch, and his status as one who will receive all the keys of authority at the end, and present them to the Son, who in turn will present them to the Father, I suppose he could be referred to a god to us, depending on how one wants to use the term."Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in c\taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning."
(3 Nephi 11:10-11)
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January 31st 2012, 03:18 PM #5
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee - Franktalk: "Your logic knows by common sense that what I said makes no sense because I stated to not trust what I stated."
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January 31st 2012, 03:33 PM #6
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
The article I posted here didn't have a clearly identified author, unfortunately, but it seems to be an editorial and was published under the editorship of Samuel W. Richards, so my operating assumption is that he's probably (though not certainly) the author. This one appeared in Millennial Star, Vol. 15 and No. 50 (I've got the full citation in my blog post), apparently in response to controversy over the items that appeared in No. 48 a couple weeks earlier.
I think there're plenty of useful comments that could be made by someone who disagrees with the article, even on a major point. That's why I made sure to phrase my sample discussion questions in such a way as not to require belief that Adam is our Heavenly Father. For instance, (4) seems very interesting to me. You could also weigh in on how the article presents the issue of the Fall and how it relates to your own understanding. You could shed some light, using this article as a foil, to expound your own beliefs or intuitions about the relationship between godhood and paternity. You could address (8) about the nature and content of exaltation, or (9) about free agency and patriarchal "control", or (10) about relations between the sexes, or (11) about family dynamics and the 'patriarchal order', or (12) about what you make of how the author approaches the scriptures... And, of course, I'd be curious to hear your answers to all of the questions about how you imagine the implications of what the author does say. I find that a great deal of insight can be gained out of attempting to enter into such a theological system and carefully begin treading some of these paths. So the possibilities for useful input are many.
In what sort of use of the term do you think Adam could be rightfully referred to as a god/God to us? (I find this subject interesting, and this coming weekend at Study and Faith I'll be posting some remarks that President Joseph Fielding Smith made during General Conference on the matter.)"If God has given [his people] such joy now, joy in their faith, in their hope, in love, in the truth of his scriptures, what kind of joy is he preparing for them at the end? If he feeds them like this on the journey, how will he feast them in their homeland?"--Augustine of Hippo
"It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading. A reading people will always be a knowing people."--John Wesley
"Wherever men are still theological there is still some chance of their being logical."--G. K. Chesterton
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February 1st 2012, 01:29 PM #7
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
I've got a huge article that lists several quotations from Mormon authorities, publications, and journals that chronicles the teaching of Adam-God. Here is where it is at on the interwebz:
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/ag.htm
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/ag2.htm
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/ag3.htm
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/ag4.htm
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/ag5.htm
http://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/agtable.htmI may not yet be as old as dirt, but dirt and I are starting to have an awful lot in common... Stephen Donaldson - Author of my favorite series (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant)
S'cuse me... oops, I'm sorry... I didn't see your sign - Bill Engvall
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February 1st 2012, 01:35 PM #8
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
I may not yet be as old as dirt, but dirt and I are starting to have an awful lot in common... Stephen Donaldson - Author of my favorite series (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant)
S'cuse me... oops, I'm sorry... I didn't see your sign - Bill Engvall
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February 1st 2012, 06:03 PM #9
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Male - MormonRe: Adam: A View from the 1850s
I can't say that I disagree with the article. I like the way he sets out plainly the hierarchical relationship between Eloheim, Jesus Christ, and Adam--none of which are the same person. I agree that the fall was part of the Father's Plan from the beginning. I do believe that one definition of a "god" can be one who rules in righteousness over a kingdom such as a patriarch over his family.
Hope this helps. Again, I don't think I disagree with any point that the author makes."Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.
And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in c\taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning."
(3 Nephi 11:10-11)
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February 1st 2012, 07:31 PM #10
Re: Adam: A View from the 1850s
Happy Birthday JB!
Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee - Franktalk: "Your logic knows by common sense that what I said makes no sense because I stated to not trust what I stated."
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