Can Mormons have a female Prophet? President?

[Cow Poke]

Is there anything in Mormondom (official or unofficial) that prevents a female from serving as a First President? Prophet?

This article from FairMormon seems to dance around the topic a bit, then kinda suggests "not", without really giving a reason....

FairMormon.Org

Why are there no female prophets today?

Knowing that any righteous individual can have gifts of the spirit, one really ought to ask: "Why do you not notice the females in the Church who are prophets?" The Lord has asked His people in ages past, and today to be:

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (Exodus 19:5-6)

He has also said that this is "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" (1 Peter 2:9)

Moses desired all the Lord's people to be prophets, he said:

Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! (Numbers 11:)

Every one of us should seek the Spirit of the Lord in learning and discerning our path through this life, and is not this the spirit of prophecy? Through the Spirit we are promised that we shall be led to all truth, and is not this the Spirit of Revelation? If one looks around at their congregation they will find men and women who have developed this gift. We call the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles prophets, seers, and revelators, for they only have the call to receive such holy promptings by which the Church is to be led. However, we all have the need to be prophets, seers and revelators for ourselves, our families, and for our callings in the Church.

© source where applicable

Do you think there will EVER be female prophets, or a female Frist President, or member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles?

[ke7ejx]

That's a good question. The only answer I can give is: I don't know.... We'd have to receive the ordination of the Priesthood first. Then again, I'm more than happy to let the guys have it. I prefer to support the responsibility than the actual responsibility.

[nrajeff]

Is there anything in Mormondom (official or unofficial) that prevents a female from serving as a First President? Prophet?

There is the official doctrine, based on official revelation, that those priesthood callings fall under the established patriarchal order of the priesthood, which God has used in every dispensation of governing His followers since the time of Adam.

Do you think there will EVER be female prophets, or a female Frist President, or member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles?

No, I don't, but perhaps some of our enemies feel it quite probable, if they feel that we change our doctrines whenever they are hurting our image.

[Cow Poke]

There is the official doctrine, based on official revelation, that those priesthood callings fall under the established patriarchal order of the priesthood, which God has used in every dispensation of governing His followers since the time of Adam.

A simple "yes" would have sufficed! (kidding, Jeff) But that's a fancy way of saying it's only for menfolk, right?

No, I don't, but perhaps some of our enemies feel it quite probable, if they feel that we change our doctrines whenever they are hurting our image.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if EVENTUALLY allowances were made, but that's not where I'm going with this. And I don't say that to disparage Mormonism, Jeff --- when were kids, my folks would have had a STROKE if they ever caught me playing cards or going to the picture show!

So, you're telling me that you do, in fact, withhold some offices from people based on gender, correct?

[nrajeff]

A simple "yes" would have sufficed! (kidding, Jeff)

I hope you are kidding, because I considered answering with a mere "yes" but assumed you'd find that not substantial enough and would end up asking for examples.

But that's a fancy way of saying it's only for menfolk, right?

Of course.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if EVENTUALLY allowances were made

Not at all?

, but that's not where I'm going with this. And I don't say that to disparage Mormonism, Jeff --- when were kids, my folks would have had a STROKE if they ever caught me playing cards or going to the picture show!

Okay.; I am glad it's not where you were intending to go.

So, you're telling me that you do, in fact, withhold some offices from people based on gender, correct?

Of course. You can find that in the church web site's basic teachings on what we believe, I think.

[nrajeff]

That's a good question. The only answer I can give is: I don't know...

You don't know whether "you think there will EVER be female prophets, or a female Frist President, or member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles" ? (Dramatic upper-case spelling of "ever" by CP, not me)
Obviously, none of us knows for sure whether the system will change in the future, but I bet you have an opinion along the lines of "I think it will change to that system someday" or "I don't think it will happen."
As for me, I think it will never happen. What I think could be wrong, but since many predictions are based on an estimate of probability, I have put the probability of us changing to a matriarchy way down in the single digits.

Then again, I'm more than happy to let the guys have it. I prefer to support the responsibility than the actual responsibility.

There are currently tons of responsibilities given to women in the church. I wouldn't complain if the priesthood responsibilities were taken from the men and added to what the women already have. : )

[Cow Poke]

I hope you are kidding, because I considered answering with a mere "yes" but assumed you'd find that not substantial enough and would end up asking for examples.

A good clue to the fact that I was "kidding" was the fact that I included a parenthetical "kidding, Jeff" right there in black and white. I thought you were good at reading WORDS! (Still, Jeff -- I'm just kidding)

Of course.

Cool!

Not at all?

Not a whole lot surprises me anymore, Jeff. I'd agree it's VERY unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

Okay.; I am glad it's not where you were intending to go.

Of course. You can find that in the church web site's basic teachings on what we believe, I think.

Fair enough. so.... YOUR Church's "withholding" of certain offices to female members is based on your SCRIPTURE, right? Just making sure we're on the same page.

[nrajeff]

Not a whole lot surprises me anymore, Jeff. I'd agree it's VERY unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

You are a cut above the typical antagonists over at Carm, then, because they have a habit of claiming to be amazed, on a seemingly daily basis, by things they claim to have discovered or learned about LDS doctrines or LDS people.

Fair enough. so.... YOUR Church's "withholding" of certain offices to female members is based on your SCRIPTURE, right? Just making sure we're on the same page.

THAT is where I figured you were headed with this. I wonder what your next move will be. (sarcasm alert)

[Cow Poke]

You are a cut above the typical antagonists over at Carm, then, because they have a habit of claiming to be amazed, on a seemingly daily basis, by things they claim to have discovered or learned about LDS doctrines or LDS people.

I'm learning, Jeff. And I believe I have been demonstrating that I'm really trying to be less ... less.... antagonistic.

THAT is where I figured you were headed with this. I wonder what your next move will be. (sarcasm alert)

My next move? Pretty simple, Jeff. We both have the same "exclusionary" polices, and for pretty much the same reason, when it comes to "discrimination" against women.

AGREED? Yes or No! (kidding)

[OtherCheek]

Is there anything in Mormondom (official or unofficial) that prevents a female from serving as a First President?

Yes. Women do not hold the Priesthood in the LDS Church. The president MUST hold the Priesthood.

Prophet?

Yes, the term prophet applies to men only. The term "prophetess" would apply to women. There can be women prophetesses as there have been in Bible times.

Do you think there will EVER be female prophets, or a female Frist President, or member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles?

No. I don't think so. At least not until they are ordained to the Priesthood. And I would be surprised if that happens, but still not shaken from my faith.

From the LDS Guide to the Scriptures:

Prophetess
See also Prophecy, Prophesy.

A woman who has received a testimony of Jesus and enjoys the spirit of revelation. A prophetess does not hold the priesthood or its keys. Though only a few women in the scriptures are called prophetesses, many prophesied, such as Rebekah, Hannah, Elisabeth, and Mary.

Miriam was called a prophetess, Ex. 15:20
Deborah was called a prophetess, Judg. 4:4
Huldah was called a prophetess, 2 Kgs. 22:14 (2 Chr. 34:22).
Anna was called a prophetess, Luke 2:36

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/pro...rah+prophetess

[Cow Poke]

Yes. Women do not hold the Priesthood in the LDS Church. The president MUST hold the Priesthood.


Yes, the term prophet applies to men only. The term "prophetess" would apply to women. There can be women prophetesses as there have been in Bible times.



No. I don't think so. At least not until they are ordained to the Priesthood. And I would be surprised if that happens, but still not shaken from my faith.

From the LDS Guide to the Scriptures:

Prophetess
See also Prophecy, Prophesy.

A woman who has received a testimony of Jesus and enjoys the spirit of revelation. A prophetess does not hold the priesthood or its keys. Though only a few women in the scriptures are called prophetesses, many prophesied, such as Rebekah, Hannah, Elisabeth, and Mary.

Miriam was called a prophetess, Ex. 15:20
Deborah was called a prophetess, Judg. 4:4
Huldah was called a prophetess, 2 Kgs. 22:14 (2 Chr. 34:22).
Anna was called a prophetess, Luke 2:36

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/pro...rah+prophetess

No argument whatsoever, OC. And you agree this is based on Scripture, obviously. Yes?

[Cow Poke]

OK, since there seems to be general consensus that Mormons withhold certain positions of leadership from women, could YOU GUYS answer this question "yes or no"?

Is your church sexist? I mean, does your church make a PRACTICE of withholding certain positions or callings from women? (It's a yes or no question)

Does "withholding certain positions or callings from women" make a Church "sexist"?

[nrajeff]

Does "withholding certain positions or callings from women" make a Church "sexist"?

Well, using the initial reasoning as used by 'you guys" to attack the LDS church, your church is as sexist as the LDS church was racist (since the LDS church "withheld the priesthood from people of a certain race" and you "withhold the pastorate from people of a certain sex").

That was the point I was trying to make in the other thread. It is good to see that we finally got you there. Hopefully, we won't see any more glass-house-dwellers trying to throw stones, from within their homes, at the house across the street.

[nrajeff]

So, assuming that this thread is the one you created to discuss my "kindergarten question," here is a summary of the "discussion" to that point IMO:

1. You asserted/accused "Racism was taught as doctrine in your Church." (post 18)
2. I said "Assuming it was, way back then, for a while: What do you want me to do about it? Resign my membership and join a church that has ZERO history of any flawed teachings ever being preached? "

3. You did answer that question, even if it was vague: "This is planet earth, Jeff, full of fallible people who make mistakes. There is REDEMPTION, however, and CORRECTION, and REPENTANCE... we can make mistakes and get back on track."

(One possible response to that recommended course of action is to wonder how I can repent of the incorrect teachings or mistakes committed by a long-dead church leader)

Anyway...

4. Given your concession that the world is full of fallible people who make mistakes--which I inferred to be concession that there is no error-free church on the planet--I put together a summary of your position and submitted it to see if it was accurate:

So what you're saying is that you believe that literally ALL of Christendom has been besieged by a modern age at some point in its existence, and has embraced falsehoods, and the message you want the Mormons to "embrace" is that there are SOME factions of Christianity out there that have embraced fewer falsehoods than Mormonism has embraced.

And your prayer or hope for the LDS is that they will search for and identify one of those factions and join it.

Is there anything factually incorrect in my summary of your position?

(By the way, you misunderstood my analogy: I was saying that some people who chase after LDS in the hope of convincing them how wrong their beliefs are, are like a dog that chases a moving car--not a parked one. I wondered what the dog expects to happen next, if it catches the car)

So if this is the correct forum to get my question answered, here it is, line by line to help you answer it:

1. Is it your belief that every church in Christendom has, at some point in its existence, embraced falsehoods? (Yes/no)

2. Is it your belief that among the non-inerrant factions of Christianity, there exist some that have embraced fewer falsehoods than Mormonism has embraced? (Yes/no)

3. Is it your prayer or hope for the LDS that they will search for and identify one of those 'less-errant' factions, and then join it instead of remaining in "relatively more errant Mormonism" ? (Yes/no)

I don't see much, if anything, that is "extreme" in my questions, but it's possible that you think you see extremism somewhere. If so, feel free to point out what you feel to be extreme, and explain what is so extreme about it. Thanks.

I think I said it before, but yes, I really am interested in finding out whether your position is different from what I think it is.

[Cow Poke]

Well, using the initial reasoning as used by 'you guys" to attack the LDS church, your church is as sexist as the LDS church was racist (since the LDS church "withheld the priesthood from people of a certain race" and you "withhold the pastorate from people of a certain sex").

I was using YOUR terminology, Jeff. See what you have to do? You have to demean YOUR Church and call it "sexist" to try to paint MY Church as "sexist", when BOTH of us are simply adhering to Scripture. That's really sad.

That was the point I was trying to make in the other thread. It is good to see that we finally got you there. Hopefully, we won't see any more glass-house-dwellers trying to throw stones, from within their homes, at the house across the street.

You're not only living in a glass house, Jeff, you're nekked!

I don't agree --- and if you were honest about it, I don't believe YOU would agree --- that EITHER of our Churches is "sexist" simply because we adhere to Scripture. If we ARE "sexist", we can clearly "blame God" if that's the game you want to play.

Now... WHERE is the "scripture" that justifies your Church's RACIST past? You know -- the black skin, the flat nose, the kinky hair, and the less valiant in warfare? Where is THAT "Scriptural authority"?