Debating one who thinks "evilbible.com" is a reliable source

[ShockOfAtheism]

if you go to other fundies like the church you appear to have come from it is no wonder you didn't get satisfactory answers. Try using the brain God gave you instead of accepting other peoples opinions.

Well, fundamentalism is pretty much what I have been taught most of my life. Tell me, what denomination do you recommend?

get rid of your fundy mentality first before you do the study is my suggestion.

Huh?

[RumTumTugger]

[Tangent]
From your fallacy files link:


The given definition is:

looks like he is guilty of the fallacy of transference as I like to call it.

[princesa]

Then let's test it, shall we?

Here's my offer:

I will give SOA a bibliography of 10 books to read. Among them will be Longenecker's book on Jewish exegesis of the first century. But I have others as well by credible scholars.

If he leave here, and then will read them, and then comes back and admits that his "education" was incomplete, that will serve for an admission to change the atmosphere.

However, if he comes back ranting and calling scholars like Longenecker brainwashed, ignorant, etc. -- and you know well enough how that happens (see what is being done to Bart Ehrman right now!) -- then it will be proven that he is NOT merely guilty of being ignorant.

I'll even find out what libraries near him have the books -- and buy the first one used for him from Amazon! No cost to him!

Now let's see what wisdom is proved right by her children -- eh???

i'll second that and add a note to SOA.

Take him up on his offer. For some reason i found myself turning all 'motherly' the moment I saw your age even though you are a perfect stranger. Consider yourself fortunate, I've had to do my own digging on finding the best books out there for my areas of interest and here you are getting a list for free. I would hope that as you finish reading through some of them you will feel comfortable to ask questions if you need on areas requiring more in depth comprehension which, in itself, would fulfill the requirement of an admission of incomplete education as it would be implied. Just accept the list and dive right into arming yourself with knowledge with prayer and humility.

[RumTumTugger]

Um...I found a bio of our new toy...this explains a lot...





17 years old, ex-Baptist. Yep. He's definitely done the hard work needed to refute Christian scholarship.

if it is anything like the Baptist church I went to as a young girl. he hasn't gotten it out of his system yet. poor kid.

[ShockOfAtheism]

if it is anything like the Baptist church I went to as a young girl. he hasn't gotten it out of his system yet. poor kid.

Maybe one of the reasons I forsook Christianity.

[jpholding]

I look forward to seeing the list. Would you like a summary of each book?

That would be fine. No more than 2-3 paragraphs each, say.

I will be making a list that includes some on the NT use of OT subject but also some that will broaden your horizons in terms of other issues.

[jpholding]

Since Turkel is such a silly person I decided to properly embed the videoclip for him (silly Turkel should know that one should use the [ Video ] tag from the forum, and not the embed-link provided by YT)

EDIT - Scratch that, Turkel seems to know what he's doing.

Boy that was fast. It took me less than 30 seconds to correct that. You have a life?

[Mountain Man]

Well, fundamentalism is pretty much what I have been taught most of my life. Tell me, what denomination do you recommend?

You need to do more than change your denomination, you need to change your way of thinking. Might I suggest the advice given by Simon Greenleaf in Testimony of the Evangelists?

§ 1. In examining the evidences of the Christian religion, it is essential to the discovery of truth that we bring to the investigation a mind freed, as far as possible, from existing prejudice, and open to conviction. There should be a readiness, on our part, to investigate with candor, to follow the truth wherever it may lead us, and to submit, without reserve or objection, to all the teachings of this religion, if it be found to be of divine origin. “There is no other entrance,” says Lord Bacon, “to the kingdom of man, which is founded in the sciences, than to the kingdom of heaven, into which no one can enter but in the character of a little child.”1 The docility which true philosophy requires of her disciples is not a spirit of servility, or the surrender of the reason and judgment to whatsoever the teacher may inculcate; but it is a mind free from all pride of opinion, not hostile to the truth sought for, willing to pursue the inquiry, and impartially to weigh the arguments and evidence, and to acquiesce in the judgment of right reason. The investigation, moreover, should be pursued with the serious earnestness which becomes the greatness of the subject—a subject fraught with such momentous consequences to man. It should be pursued as in the presence of God, and under the solemn sanctions created by a lively sense of his omniscience, and of our accountability to him for the right use of the faculties which he has bestowed.

§ 2. In requiring this candor and simplicity of mind in those who would investigate the truth of our religion, Christianity demands nothing more than is readily conceded to every branch of human science. All these have their data, and their axioms; and Christianity, too, has her first principles, the admission of which is essential to any real progress in knowledge. “Christianity,” says Bishop Wilson, “inscribes on the portal of her dominion ‘Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall in nowise enter therein.’ Christianity does not profess to convince the perverse and head-strong, to bring irresistible evidence to the daring and profane, to vanquish the proud scorner, and afford evidences from which the careless and perverse cannot possibly escape. This might go to destroy man’s responsibility. All that Christianity professes, is to propose such evidences as may satisfy the meek, the tractable, the candid, the serious inquirer.”2

http://www.classicapologetics.com/g/GreenTes1.html

[jpholding]

Well, fundamentalism is pretty much what I have been taught most of my life. Tell me, what denomination do you recommend?

NONE!

I'm not joking. Seeking an individual church with the right orientation, regardless of its denomination, would be better to start. In general some denoms are more into education than others (eg, the Reformed Presbyterians are more into education in general, while many Church of Christ and Independent Baptist churches disdain it). But in the end it's more the attitude of the pastor/preacher and staff that makes a difference.

Later someone here can maybe figure out a place near where you are that is more oriented towards education.



Back tomorrow.

[Chrawnus]

Boy that was fast. It took me less than 30 seconds to correct that. You have a life?

Define life.

[princesa]

Perfect. It's 5PM and I can go home knowing this episode had a pleasant ending.

[Andius]

Mmhh, gonna be quoting that advice of yours JP, I likes it, and all to true. :)

Tis not the denomination/tradition that matters, but it's orientation and attitude. ^^

[RumTumTugger]

Well, fundamentalism is pretty much what I have been taught most of my life. Tell me, what denomination do you recommend?

No particular denomination I happen to belong to a Presbyterian church that insists you bring your brain with you for the sermons and teachings . find a church that does that doesn't' matter what denomination.

I am lucky my Dad taught me to be a critical thinker or I might be where you are at now. instead of being assured that what I believe stands on a firm foundation. Apparently you were never taught critical thinking skills.

Huh?

Fundy mentality accepting what others say without careful study of all the information out there. Something that if you went to the type of church I went to without having someone to teach you critical thinking skills will be easily lead astray. From what I've seen you have accepted the non christian thinking just as you accepted your fundy teaching without any any care to make sure you are getting the best scholarship out there. you need to find the best on both sides not the weakest like you have so far.

Oh and as JPH has said if you show you are truly interested in the Truth and really understanding things it will go much smoother for you.

Understand this JPH does not read just those who he can easily refute or even deal with those he can he tries to find the best scholarship on all sides. He just has no patience with those who are not true scholars or are content just to get their scholarship from Wikipedia and others of that ilk. He's been dealing with such people since before you were born.

[RumTumTugger]

Maybe one of the reasons I forsook Christianity.

Looks like you forsook Christianity without giving it careful thought(I know something you probably weren't' taught to do.) I Have some further advise for you. When you read those books from the list JPH is going to give you make sure you really understand what they are saying ask for clarification if you need it. Don't just accept what is said at face value.

And what JPH says is right it isn't' the denomination it is the attitude of the pastors. teachers and fellow congregants if it is one like my childhood church where it is this is the way it is no need to make sure you have a reason for it run do not walk away from it. find one that as I said earlier insists you use the brain God gave you so you can worship him in fullness.

[fm93]

subbing