Apologetics and the Old Testament

[Adrift]

It's hard for the gauge you in a response because your post looks like it has multiple discussions at one time. And if you can't see the problems with Jewish settlers in a Muslim country, then you're so far removed from the current situation regarding that issue that it would be fruitless for me to explain why that's a problem. I really don't want to get too deep into it because I know you don't like debate in your threads, but I'll just say that, as it stands, it looks like there is not evidence for the Exodus if we go by the traditional archeological finds. Again, there have been others who have visited the site in Saudi Arabia (which Paul plainly stated is the correct location) and documented it quite well (these videos can be easily weeded out with a simple google or youtube search, and people can look at the finds and make their own estimations). I was just proposing that Christians shouldn't be so quick to dismiss something just because it has support of someone who has been an embarrassment to the Christian community to the secular world. That's what it looks AiG is doing... damage control.

Ah, sorry about breaking up your previous post sean. I forgot that that's a peeve of yours. As far as documented finds go by non-experts, you may be right in that we shouldn't just dismiss the claims outright without looking into them, but I believe we should probably do so with a bit of healthy skepticism. Do you have a link to a particular video or article you had in mind?

[Xru]

This is crazy. I was just going to comment that I actually read a book by a guy named Ron Wyatt on the supposed discovery of Noah's Ark in the late 90s that I thought was fascinating. Hollywood was supposedly going to make a film about the adventure that this guy had with his cop buddy, and it read like something out of an Indiana Jones sequel (betcha couldn't tell I'm an Indy fan ). But then I never heard anything about it ever again, and so I assumed the whole thing was just sorta... fluff. I look at the video, and it turns out its about Ron Wyatt. Weird. I haven't even read that name in probably 10 years.

Anyways, I plan on watching the vid Xru, and I really hope there's something to it, but I think we have to be discerning about what we take in, even (or especially) from Christians who may mean well, but could be chasing shadows. Even those trained in the subject like David Rohl, who I think possibly may be on to something here and there, I take with a grain of salt because I realize his theories are considered fringe. Again, not that, as a literalist, I don't think the mainstream theories are, you know, fringe in their own way, but I think its important for Christians to be, as Jesus put it, wise as serpents. You know, we just got to be smart about this i think.

pancreasman, I generally love reading your posts, and under other circumstances it wouldn't be a big deal, but this is Christianity 201, which is a subforum primarily for Christians. I sort of wanted to separate this subject so that Christians could discuss this topic among themselves without being in debate mode. I'm sure you understand.

Oh I'm a hardline skeptic and watching this video I came up with all sorts of way it could be intentionally biased, manipulated, etc. It is however, IMPRESSIVE, especially if ya look at a documentary by I think it was a Swedish film company that covers the whole spheel, from the Exodus route to the Red Sea, the crossing, and the discovery of Mt. Sinai and its called Exodus Revieled.

It is also available as a streaming video from Amazon Instant Video for $2 here.

I can guarantee that you will not be sorry for seeing this for the price of $2. Also the number of pictures of chariot wheels are much more numerous and it can easily be seen why Wyatt is so high on this discovery.

Remember to buy all your stuff from amazon.com through the link provided by Chris so TWeb gets a cut of the revenue. Go to http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...23#post3381723 so as to give TWeb credit for the purchase.

[seanD]

Ah, sorry about breaking up your previous post sean. I forgot that that's a peeve of yours. As far as documented finds go by non-experts, you may be right in that we shouldn't just dismiss the claims outright without looking into them, but I believe we should probably do so with a bit of healthy skepticism. Do you have a link to a particular video or article you had in mind?

"Mountain of Fire" was a good one.

[Xru]

"Mountain of Fire" was a good one.

This one is also available on amazon.com but seems to be out of production because the prices are $50 for a new DVD and $35 for a used one. Too bad. Maybe they have it on netflix.com. I'll look now.

Nope . . . too bad.

[seanD]

This one is also available on amazon.com but seems to be out of production because the prices are $50 for a new DVD and $35 for a used one. Too bad. Maybe they have it on netflix.com. I'll look now.

Nope . . . too bad.

It's free on YT.

[fm93]

Colin Humphreys has written a book called The Miracles of the Exodus, in which he offers possible explanations of the natural means of the Exodus miracles. He defends a traditional early date and lays out a theory of exactly when and where everything happened, down to the very month. It's an intriguing look at Exodus, and it remains faithful to the text.

[Adrift]

"Mountain of Fire" was a good one.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[Xru]

Being interested in how translation from texts describing events 2000 years abo I'm into Biblical codicology and paleography. My first read is Poet and Peasant and Through Peasant Eyes.

Briefly, the author discounts all methods previously tried as interpreting NT parables especially the metaphoric one so he uses a technique in which he actually found like it think it was 30 villages in the Mid-East that are virtually unchanged in 2000, in which he lives for 20 or so years, visiting each village, so that he is not seen as a guest but a accepted member of the community, and he rules out speaking to anyone that he has not been close friends with for at least 5 years and there are more criteria.

He then discusses certain parables in Luke and tries to get the mid-Eastern perspective as to what they would mean. The parable I've read so far which are puzzling to a westerner are made much more understandable when considered through mid-Eastern values and traditions.

If it's that hard to unravel the Biblical texts of 2000 years ago, how much harder of 3000 years ago. Not that we shouldn't try. But realistically . . .

[AlphaBravo]

Lurking but don't have much to say at this point. Thanks for the invite.

[MaxVel]

I've just managed to get hold of a couple of books which might be of interest**

Walter C Kaiser's 'The Old Testament Documents: Are they reliable and relevant?'

and

John H Walton's 'Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament'


When I get time to read them I'll post something of a review in this thread....


**I'm overseas on holiday at the moment, which means.... Christian bookshops that actually have books in English!! And not just 'Christian Living' books either!!

[Adrift]

I've just managed to get hold of a couple of books which might be of interest**

Walter C Kaiser's 'The Old Testament Documents: Are they reliable and relevant?'

and

John H Walton's 'Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament'


When I get time to read them I'll post something of a review in this thread....


**I'm overseas on holiday at the moment, which means.... Christian bookshops that actually have books in English!! And not just 'Christian Living' books either!!

Awesome! Thanks Maxvel.

On Robrecht's recommendation I got Richard Elliott Freedman's, Who Wrote the Bible? last week, but I'm behind in some of my reading in other areas so it'll be awhile before I write up a review of that.

I plan on exploring a lot of the popular theories in mainstream OT scholarship in this thread, including the Documentary hypothesis, the borrowing of Canaanite myth and the name of El, Israeli polytheism, etc. It seems to me that a lot of Christians are sort of unprepared at handling these topics when they come up, and so its important to explore these subjects seriously, as we seek to harmonize the data with the Biblical account.