Avoid godless chatter

[aegis]

Dear all,

I am reading First and Second Timothy 16 , Paul was teaching Timothy to avoid god less chatters as it will make people more and more ungodly., avoid meaningless talk, not to devote to godless chatter, foolish and stupid arguments that produce quarrels.

But also in 1 Peter, Peter advise Christians to be prepared to share the hope that is in us.

In Mars Hill, Paul argued with Athenians about God.

As discussions in Theology web, I sometimes wonder am I engaging in foolish and stupid arguments or godless chatters or meaningless talks, Sometimes in the apologetics discussions, it seems people are just talking over each others heads or not having productive meaningful discussions.

On the other hand, I know that it is through discussions and arguments and debate that truth may be make more clear and questions answered, so there is both sides.

My question is what is godless chatters and how do I minimize godless chatters in TWeb?

Any insights or comments?


regards
Aegis

scripture references:


1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith

I Timothy 1:6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

2 Timothy 2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

2 Timothy 2:23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels

[Abigail]

Dear all,

I am reading First and Second Timothy 16 , Paul was teaching Timothy to avoid god less chatters as it will make people more and more ungodly., avoid meaningless talk, not to devote to godless chatter, foolish and stupid arguments that produce quarrels.

But also in 1 Peter, Peter advise Christians to be prepared to share the hope that is in us.

In Mars Hill, Paul argued with Athenians about God.

As discussions in Theology web, I sometimes wonder am I engaging in foolish and stupid arguments or godless chatters or meaningless talks, Sometimes in the apologetics discussions, it seems people are just talking over each others heads or not having productive meaningful discussions.

On the other hand, I know that it is through discussions and arguments and debate that truth may be make more clear and questions answered, so there is both sides.

My question is what is godless chatters and how do I minimize godless chatters in TWeb?

Any insights or comments?


regards
Aegis

scripture references:


1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith

I Timothy 1:6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

2 Timothy 2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

2 Timothy 2:23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels

If you look at what some of the emperors did to manipulate their public images, you will find that it usually included some convoluted lineage through which they claimed ancestory to say the Roman god Mars or some other such figure.The Jews themselves were very quick to point out their relationship to Abraham from which the claimed their own standing' so I think it was possibly easy for people to fall into the trap of thinking these carnal links,say claiming some physical link to Jesus or one of the apostles etc, made them that extra bit more special. Paul is just telling them that that kind of thinking is redundant and a waste of time since any meaningful relationship is by faith and their time would be better spent in the pursuit of godliness.

[One Bad Pig]

Dear all,

I am reading First and Second Timothy 16 , Paul was teaching Timothy to avoid god less chatters as it will make people more and more ungodly., avoid meaningless talk, not to devote to godless chatter, foolish and stupid arguments that produce quarrels.

But also in 1 Peter, Peter advise Christians to be prepared to share the hope that is in us.

In Mars Hill, Paul argued with Athenians about God.

As discussions in Theology web, I sometimes wonder am I engaging in foolish and stupid arguments or godless chatters or meaningless talks, Sometimes in the apologetics discussions, it seems people are just talking over each others heads or not having productive meaningful discussions.

On the other hand, I know that it is through discussions and arguments and debate that truth may be make more clear and questions answered, so there is both sides.

My question is what is godless chatters and how do I minimize godless chatters in TWeb?

Any insights or comments?

Discussions, arguments, and debates generally make the truth more clear and answer questions only when both sides are forthrightly seeking the truth and answering questions. If one side is uninterested in seeking the truth, but only in winning the argument, then opportunities for learning will be limited; once that is obvious, it's time to move on to something more productive. This is something that obviously requires discernment.

1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith

I Timothy 1:6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.

This may be a reference to Jewish kabbalah, which is mystical speculation concerning the scriptures, and can get really weird.

2 Timothy 2:16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

The Orthodox understanding seems to be that we should talk less, because when you're chattering on about this 'n' that, you're not listening for/to the Holy Spirit. Mixed in there is Paul's exhortation to Timothy to focus on the things of God rather than the things of this world (2 Tim 2:4). This is especially important for church leaders. A Greek Orthodox saint of the last century, Father Nicholas Planas, was so unfocused on the world that he didn't know who the leader of the Greek government was when asked.

[aegis]

If you look at what some of the emperors did to manipulate their public images, you will find that it usually included some convoluted lineage through which they claimed ancestory to say the Roman god Mars or some other such figure.The Jews themselves were very quick to point out their relationship to Abraham from which the claimed their own standing' so I think it was possibly easy for people to fall into the trap of thinking these carnal links,say claiming some physical link to Jesus or one of the apostles etc, made them that extra bit more special. Paul is just telling them that that kind of thinking is redundant and a waste of time since any meaningful relationship is by faith and their time would be better spent in the pursuit of godliness.

Hi Abigail

Thank you for your comment regarding the original historical critical background of the passages as regards to the inclusion of pagan gods in the genealogy of the emperors. I think this is an important data to help in understanding the passages as it gave the basis for understanding the meaning of godless chatters and argument and quarrels . The focus on godliness is well taken and is consistent with Paul's message of the summary of the command is love born of clean heart pure conscience and true faith

regards

Aegis

[aegis]

Discussions, arguments, and debates generally make the truth more clear and answer questions only when both sides are forthrightly seeking the truth and answering questions. If one side is uninterested in seeking the truth, but only in winning the argument, then opportunities for learning will be limited; once that is obvious, it's time to move on to something more productive. This is something that obviously requires discernment.

This may be a reference to Jewish kabbalah, which is mystical speculation concerning the scriptures, and can get really weird.

The Orthodox understanding seems to be that we should talk less, because when you're chattering on about this 'n' that, you're not listening for/to the Holy Spirit. Mixed in there is Paul's exhortation to Timothy to focus on the things of God rather than the things of this world (2 Tim 2:4). This is especially important for church leaders. A Greek Orthodox saint of the last century, Father Nicholas Planas, was so unfocused on the world that he didn't know who the leader of the Greek government was when asked.

Hi Pig

Thanks for your comments. Your applications are beneficial and the example of Father Nicholas interesting.

I agree with the benefit and importance of argument and discussions amongst both believers and non believers and I agree totally that sometimes there come a time when you realized that people are just arguing for arguments sake and each side is entrenched in their position and talking above each others head and no communication is going on except insults and sarcasms. When that happens, the discussion should stop for nothing good will come out of it. There is definitely a huge role for discernment.

However, other than that, there is a role for sharing and discussion and defence of the truth as Christians have to stand firm for the faith.

The attitude of godliness, faith, focuses on other world and a servant heart are truly important

Regards

Aegis

[The Remonstrant]

As discussions in Theology web, I sometimes wonder am I engaging in foolish and stupid arguments or godless chatters or meaningless talks,

Key here is discernment (something I have been wonderfully lacking in throughout much of my wasted life). I would recommend giving yourself to frequent study and application of the "wisdom" literature throughout the Bible (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and James particularly).

Sometimes in the apologetics discussions, it seems people are just talking over each others heads or not having productive meaningful discussions.

Precisely! Good observation. Be thankful you are not utterly lacking in discernment. (You should have seen me a year and a half ago and how I was duped, hoodwinked, led on, deceived, bamboozled -- it was so pathetic!) You can waste so much of your time, breath, energy without it.

[MaxVel]

Good thoughts, Aegis.

It's true that there are many on the Apologetics board who are not really interested in serious discussions. I think time will show who is and who isn't, and also by noting how posters you respect react to other posters. I'd recommend avoiding prolonged discussions with time-wasters and the insincere, set yourself a realistic goal (perhaps of just showing where they are wrong on one specific point), and 'walk away' after that... ...which can be hard to do!!

[aegis]

Key here is discernment (something I have been wonderfully lacking in throughout much of my wasted life). I would recommend giving yourself to frequent study and application of the "wisdom" literature throughout the Bible (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and James particularly).


Precisely! Good observation. Be thankful you are not utterly lacking in discernment. (You should have seen me a year and a half ago and how I was duped, hoodwinked, led on, deceived, bamboozled -- it was so pathetic!) You can waste so much of your time, breath, energy without it.

Thanks for your comment.

I think I am going through that stage too that sometimes I felt such a time waster but not achieving anying.

I will take up your advise on the study of wisdom books and learn discernment.

Ecclesiastes is my favourite book'
I am still struggling with James as I do not fully understand its theme.
I like proverbs too and may be I should read one chapter a day as it has 31 chapters

regards

Aegis

[aegis]

Good thoughts, Aegis.

It's true that there are many on the Apologetics board who are not really interested in serious discussions. I think time will show who is and who isn't, and also by noting how posters you respect react to other posters. I'd recommend avoiding prolonged discussions with time-wasters and the insincere, set yourself a realistic goal (perhaps of just showing where they are wrong on one specific point), and 'walk away' after that... ...which can be hard to do!!

Good advise.

I should look at some 'good' responders and learn how they respond to questions.

I think it is important to not just we should know the right answer, but also how to respond with the right attitude and the nuances of interaction. So there are two parts to answering a question.

That is why this is like a breath of fresh air as compared to apologetic forums

Regards


Aegis