A Mormon Testimony. The foundation and the superstructure.

[OtherCheek]

YOU have been fooled, OC, into thinking that Smith, a con man, is a real prophet. And you're downright adamant about it. And all you have is this "Testimony". How did you get that? Smith.

A testimony is received by studying the scriptures, through sincere and earnest prayer, and by obedience to the commandments of God. It is carried to the heart and mind by the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Moroni 10:5)

This is also why I wrote the following:

There is also a temptation in this physical world to build ones spiritual beliefs atop a foundation of secular learning, and tangible physical evidences; or upon a foundation of participation in Church auxiliary programs and activities. Such an inverted testimony will not stand through times of severe adversity and testing because it is not founded upon the “Rock” as Jesus taught that it should. That is why some people lose their testimonies, and fall away from their faith–and I’m not just talking about Mormons losing their faith. This happens in all denominations.

Without a base foundation, ones reasoning is free to run rampant and be led astray. That base foundation is a knowledge that "Heavenly Father lives and loves us and desires our greatest happiness; that Jesus Christ lives, that He is the Son of God, and that He carried out the infinite Atonement;"

[Xru]

Right. You can dispute it, but I cannot. That is why I wrote:



and this:

Well OC . . . and I tried to think of a nicer way to put this but you are being a fool.

Completely discounting that a testimony, inspiration or whatever can be modified and changed . . . I mean completely discounting it is a foolish mistake and I'm sorry for you. May God protect you and may you somehow find the true path.

[OtherCheek]

OC, how does a vague feeling equal God? See the problem with your system? You basically have to use the authority of Joseph Smith, to prove the authority of Joseph Smith. Does that sound logical to you?

And you have the authority of the Bible to prove the Bible. Either that you your foundation is inverted, and your spiritual faith rests on the base foundation of secular learning and the physical world.

[Cow Poke]

This is also why I wrote the following:

Without a base foundation, ones reasoning is free to run rampant and be led astray. That base foundation is a knowledge that "Heavenly Father lives and loves us and desires our greatest happiness; that Jesus Christ lives, that He is the Son of God, and that He carried out the infinite Atonement;"

OC, if Mormonism is true, and Smith is a real prophet, why do you guys have to be so incredibly deceptive in recruiting new people? Why, for example, does all your Church's artistic depiction of the "translation" of the plates show Smith seated with the alleged scribe, Golden Plates in view, when, in truth, he had his face stuffed in a hat?

Why can't you guys just be honest about what you believe? The Holy Spirit does not need to TRICK people into believing.

[Cow Poke]

And you have the authority of the Bible to prove the Bible. Either that you your foundation is inverted, and your spiritual faith rests on the base foundation of secular learning and the physical world.

Today is Easter, OC. Think "empty tomb".

[OtherCheek]

Well . . . if you have absolute confidence in our conscience to discriminate then I have no answer. None-the-less, IMO, using your method is a very slippery slope and prone to error. I would not subscribe to LDS belief for the very reason you have outlined.

And a better solution is to NOT build your knowledge on the Rock as Jesus taught, but instead place the "Rock" atop a foundation of untethered human reason, secular learning, and evidence from the physical world?

[Cow Poke]

And a better solution is to NOT build your knowledge on the Rock as Jesus taught, but instead place the "Rock" atop a foundation of untethered human reason, secular learning, and evidence from the physical world?

I wondered how long it would take for the Awfulgetics False Dichotomy to kick in! Are you really that STUPID, OC?

[OtherCheek]

Today is Easter, OC. Think "empty tomb".

Yes. He is Risen. I have a knowledge of that and it is a part of the base of the foundation for my testimony.

[Cow Poke]

Yes. He is Risen. I have a knowledge of that and it is a part of the base of the foundation for my testimony.

Please explain how that turns a con man into a prophet.

Meanwhile, I'm going to be eating Chicken Sausage Gumbo with my family!

[OtherCheek]

I wondered how long it would take for the Awfulgetics False Dichotomy to kick in! Are you really that STUPID, OC?

No. I would not invert the base of my foundation with the things at the top. It what a rhetorical question for consideration, meant to illustrate my point.

[Cerebrum123]

OC, the problem being that Joseph Smith, is just a fallible human being, and isn't exactly known for his honesty. Plus the Bible has everything including God Himself backing it up. Why doesn't the BoM have similar credibility if it truly is from God? Again God is not the author of confusion, and you don't have His approval, but some vague feeling that makes you warm and fuzzy inside. Does God have a history of making people fell all "warm and fuzzy"? Just hearing the words "burning in the bosom" denotes this kind of touchy feely type image. OC, I seriously suggest you compare Joseph Smith in detail, against both known prophets and false prophets. I am 100% certain which he would be most similar to.

[lilpixieofterror]

And you have the authority of the Bible to prove the Bible. Either that you your foundation is inverted, and your spiritual faith rests on the base foundation of secular learning and the physical world.

That's a strawmen OC for no, I have several avenues to prove the authority of the Bible with. I have a sold ground of philosophy that shows me how philosophically complete and amazing the philosophy of Christianity really is while Mormonism is full of philosophical holes such as the circular path your Testimony has to take. Next, we find that the Bible is archeologically sound and describes many places that have been found to not only exist, but show a lay out how it is described within the text of the Bible, while the BoM has shown itself to describe no places that really have shown to exist and appears to be made up fiction. Another avenue is how the Bible lines up with anthropology and how much it shows a knowledge of the ancient world it was written in, while the BoM shows Jesus talking to the ancient Americans in Greek terms they would have no reference for (the ancient Americans had no clue what the Alpha and Omega was, so Jesus using the phrase to them would be him talking nonsense). Sorry OC, you might think that way, but I do not. I believe the Bible to be authoritative because it shows itself to be dead on accurate in many different, testable areas. Can the same be said about the BoM?

[Xru]

I wondered how long it would take for the Awfulgetics False Dichotomy to kick in! Are you really that STUPID, OC?

Oh my God Oc you have finally done it. You are teaching to ignore the words of Jesus. You are a disciple Satan. God will have you at the the do time. And it won't be pretty.

BTW, this is also heresy I believe although I'll have to read up on that.

[OtherCheek]

Please explain how that turns a con man into a prophet.

Meanwhile, I'm going to be eating Chicken Sausage Gumbo with my family!

To you, a person with no "holding place" for such knowledge, he is a con man.

Having a testimony of Heavenly Father and Christ, leads to the trust that God loves us will not try to deceive us.

[OtherCheek]

Oh my God Oc you have finally done it. You are teaching to ignore the words of Jesus. You are a disciple Satan. God will have you at the the do time. And it won't be pretty.

BTW, this is also heresy I believe although I'll have to read up on that.

Were you addressing OC or CP?