Fundamentalism, Fundies, and Misnomers

[Sea of red]

"You're black!" says the pot to the kettle.

Yet you've presented NOTHING to prove otherwise beyond asserting it, closing your eyes and hoping it goes away, and pretending it's 'obvious' your right. Now prove it is only those that disagree with you need to prove stuff, but you're free to just assert whatever you want?



"You're black!" says the pot to the kettle.

It's easy, you DESERVE it with your avoidance and demanding that I have to meet a standard you REFUSE to meet. I gave a link, I gave an entire conclusion paragraph, you have presented ZERO to back your ASSERTIONS with. I think I am better off trying to convince the wall next to me of anything. It isn't nearly as hard as that rock you call a head.



Always have been and you're proving it right now, with your demanding I meet standards you never seem to think you have to meet and your assertions that everybody that disagrees with you as wrong. I couldn't do it without you.

I guess my mother was right when she said "leopards never change their spots!". I knew you would eventually crack and lash out at myself or one of my friends so this really doesn't come as a surprise. As you know, I was civil to MM only because I knew he was one of your friends, so I backed off so that you wouldn't become upset. Not to mention the fact that a certain troll friends of yours has been trying to get a rise out of me and I let it go. I asked in a PM (to which you didn't not reply) that you show me the same courtesy towards my friends. At first it looked like you really wanted to try and be civil to keep the peace. I had a good feeling though as I watched that you would lose your temper at some point.

You behave like you a child sometimes, you know that? It's sad that you let your temper control the kind of person you become. But if you want to treat my friend rudely and insult him because he wouldn't tell you that you're right, go for it. I've got news for you, too. The only reason he doesn't attack you is because your behavior is your own worst enemy. I wanted to believe you had grown out of this crap but it's obvious you haven't at all. This is why less and less skeptics bother replying to you. You're pointless in the long run.

[AlphaBravo]

You wound me :P

I don't think passion alone does a "fundy" make,

We could just call him a passionate guy, like many people. I'm pretty passionate myself in person. I keep a very calm persona online because emotion, humor, body language, and all these other super important communication markers doesn't translate well to text :D

Yes, it was a cheap shot. Thanks for taking it so well.

[OU812]

I guess my mother was right when she said "leopards never change their spots!". I knew you would eventually crack and lash out at myself or one of my friends so this really doesn't come as a surprise. As you know, I was civil to MM only because I knew he was one of your friends, so I backed off so that you wouldn't become upset. Not to mention the fact that a certain troll friends of yours has been trying to get a rise out of me and I let it go. I asked in a PM (to which you didn't not reply) that you show me the same courtesy towards my friends. At first it looked like you really wanted to try and be civil to keep the peace. I had a good feeling though as I watched that you would lose your temper at some point.

re: the bold parts = also known as, "trolling"/"baiting"......

[Sea of red]

re: the bold parts = also known as, "trolling"/"baiting"......

Sorry, I had no malicious intentions unlike others on this forum. I simply stated that I was skeptical that she would keep up her civility for long. If that's trolling to you, get off the internet.

[OU812]

It is a problem like the ancient beliefs of all the cultures of the world. These are diverse ancient views based on ancient human views of God and such things as animal and human sacrifice. A very poor basis for beliefs of any kind in today's world.

I see you just asserting the above. Can you argue/offer an apologetic for how Baha'i IS a good 'basis' for beliefs of any kind in this world? In the meantime, I'll offer you some perspective: let's say that I profess to belong to religion 'X' (let's say, Hinduism), and I proclaim that Greek or Roman mythologies offer a "very poor basis for beliefs of any kind in today's world", but then don't explain how my own religion - "Hinduism" for rhetorical purposes - IS "a good basis for belief in today's world" . Would you be convinced by such statements? I would think not. But that's how your statements come across to me.

Atheists/agnostics are justified in their objections that there is a total lack of evidence in today's world for any such Anthropomorphic hand's on miracle working Gods that interact with our physical existence.

But Atheists/agnostics would say the same things about the 'Personal' God of Baha'i and his "Manifestations"...so what's you're point? Are they 'justified' in that instance as well?* But you're a theist as well, shunyadragon, so you saying the above is rather like me saying the above about ancient polytheistic belief systems and pretending that it has any apologetic force beyond mere polemic.

*keep in mind that some of the "Manifestations of God" from your religion - people like Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, etc - would be called "ignorant Bronze/Iron age folks" by these very same atheists/agnostics that you say are so 'justified'. As far as the God of Baha'i, just by being 'personal' at all, he's relatively more 'anthropomorphic' than the version of God proffered by the Medieval Muslim philosophers, who were influenced a bit by Aristotle.

The predominance of anti-science in Christianity further justifies there objections these world views and other ancient worldviews, and their God(s)..

"The lack of science in Greek mythology further justifies the modern-day objections to these world views and other ancient worldviews, and their god(s)." If I as a theist, tell you that all polytheistic belief systems lack any basis in reality, would that convince you of the truth of theism (whether in general or a specific type)?

No problem, the atheist/agnostic world view is more real and reasonable than ancient anthropomorphic miracle working God(s) involved with animal and human sacrifice and other weird stuff.

Again more assertion, question-begging, and calling a particular type of praxis names (ex. "weird stuff"), but no argument offered, and no epistemology offered on how you know/can apprehend that Baha'i is true.

Chalcolithic is a transitional period in some cultures, and considered a subset of the Bronze Age.

Nonetheless the above is a smoke screen for the problem of Christians slinging around derogatory names such as 'fundy atheist' that have no relationship to what, how and why atheists believe as they do.

The above "Why does the Copper Age ALWAYS get left out???" was not a 'smoke screen' but an attempt at humor. If anything is a 'smoke screen', it would be the actions of a person claiming to be a theist, but who never once comes to the rhetorical/intellectual defense of fellow theistic positions, and ONLY does so for atheistic/agnostic positions.

As for 'fundy atheist', it very much has a relationship to what, how and why atheists believe as they do, inasmuch as many self-proclaimed atheists exhibit 'fundy' thinking that is residual from their former background (iow, the religion they were before they became atheist).

[Jaecp]

re: the bold parts = also known as, "trolling"/"baiting"......

How so?

[lilpixieofterror]

I guess my mother was right when she said "leopards never change their spots!". I knew you would eventually crack and lash out at myself or one of my friends so this really doesn't come as a surprise.

Sea, your friends are not you. Jaecp did not send me an outreach PM, you did.

As you know, I was civil to MM only because I knew he was one of your friends, so I backed off so that you wouldn't become upset.

Why would I become upset? MM is a big boy and he can handle himself just fine. What happens with you two is between you two, not me. I don't care if you like MM or anybody I do or not, that is between you two.

Not to mention the fact that a certain troll friends of yours has been trying to get a rise out of me and I let it go. I asked in a PM (to which you didn't not reply) that you show me the same courtesy towards my friends. At first it looked like you really wanted to try and be civil to keep the peace. I had a good feeling though as I watched that you would lose your temper at some point.

That is your assumption that is false James, I am not upset or angry at all. You should hear the stuff I say to the guys I work with and the jokes I throw around at my husband. Some of that stuff would get me in trouble on T web, but it doesn't bug me because I do not take it personally.

You behave like you a child sometimes, you know that?

Or I have a sense of humor.

It's sad that you let your temper control the kind of person you become.

Not upset or angry in the least. You really need to drop the idea that people that throw out some insults do it because they are angry. I do not, shoot, I insult my husband and friends in good nature fun. Perhaps you should try lightening up and not taking offense to everything you see. I sure don't.

But if you want to treat my friend rudely and insult him because he wouldn't tell you that you're right, go for it. I've got news for you, too.

It's too bad that he is wrong and very wrong but is unable to admit it. Perhaps the problem is you two are too stuck up and trying to find offense in anything and everything?

The only reason he doesn't attack you is because your behavior is your own worst enemy. I wanted to believe you had grown out of this crap but it's obvious you haven't at all. This is why less and less skeptics bother replying to you. You're pointless in the long run.

And let me tell you something...

You need to grow a sense of humor and stop taking everything so personally because it is going to make your life miserable. I tell blonde jokes and I'm a natural blonde and I tell them because they are funny and I can get a kick out of them. I can hang out with the guys and not get upset because I am able to take whatever they dish out and I am also able to give them back too. I have a list of dumb things I've done running around in my head and freely share these dumb stories with my friends or when we're sitting around talking about dumb things we've done. I am able to laugh at myself as well as others because guess what... I keep my humor about me. Just tonight I was out and I was working with somebody that seemed to be quite a klutz and bashed his head or back against about every cowling he could. On the last one he managed not to do it crawling out and I told him that it was going to feel left out because he didn't bash something against it. He thought that was pretty funny, but I could picture you getting mad. You do know that there is a difference between being mean and not, right? Seriously, get yourself a sense of humor and stop taking everything to seriously. I'm not upset or angry, why are you?

[lilpixieofterror]

re: the bold parts = also known as, "trolling"/"baiting"......

Shh... don't let James know I am not angry nor have every been on this thread.

[shunyadragon]

I see you just asserting the above. Can you argue/offer an apologetic for how Baha'i IS a good 'basis' for beliefs of any kind in this world? In the meantime, I'll offer you some perspective: let's say that I profess to belong to religion 'X' (let's say, Hinduism), and I proclaim that Greek or Roman mythologies offer a "very poor basis for beliefs of any kind in today's world", but then don't explain how my own religion - "Hinduism" for rhetorical purposes - IS "a good basis for belief in today's world" . Would you be convinced by such statements? I would think not. But that's how your statements come across to me.





But Atheists/agnostics would say the same things about the 'Personal' God of Baha'i and his "Manifestations"...so what's you're point? Are they 'justified' in that instance as well?* But you're a theist as well, shunyadragon, so you saying the above is rather like me saying the above about ancient polytheistic belief systems and pretending that it has any apologetic force beyond mere polemic.

*keep in mind that some of the "Manifestations of God" from your religion - people like Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, etc - would be called "ignorant Bronze/Iron age folks" by these very same atheists/agnostics that you say are so 'justified'. As far as the God of Baha'i, just by being 'personal' at all, he's relatively more 'anthropomorphic' than the version of God proffered by the Medieval Muslim philosophers, who were influenced a bit by Aristotle.




"The lack of science in Greek mythology further justifies the modern-day objections to these world views and other ancient worldviews, and their god(s)." If I as a theist, tell you that all polytheistic belief systems lack any basis in reality, would that convince you of the truth of theism (whether in general or a specific type)?

If you understood the Baha'i view you could possibly respond and dialogue better than your responses above. It is possibly that a dialogue in another thread could help.

Again more assertion, question-begging, and calling a particular type of praxis names (ex. "weird stuff"), but no argument offered, and no epistemology offered on how you know/can apprehend that Baha'i is true.

Not question-begging, misuse of the fallacy, just objecting to the use of fundy atheist in the sand box debate techniques. Another thread would be appropriate for a discussion of the Baha'i view there already has been a number of them in the past.

The above "Why does the Copper Age ALWAYS get left out???" was not a 'smoke screen' but an attempt at humor.

the description of the Chalcolithic was not related to the problem of the ;somke screen' statement. That referred to the sandbox tactics of using fundy atheist.

If anything is a 'smoke screen', it would be the actions of a person claiming to be a theist, but who never once comes to the rhetorical/intellectual defense of fellow theistic positions, and ONLY does so for atheistic/agnostic positions.

Common false generalization. I am not an atheist, but I do object to emotional venum filled monologue of many theists toward atheists. It is irrational. Accusations of 'fundy atheist' is an example.

As for 'fundy atheist', it very much has a relationship to what, how and why atheists believe as they do, inasmuch as many self-proclaimed atheists exhibit 'fundy' thinking that is residual from their former background (iow, the religion they were before they became atheist).

Your false generalization comes to full view in the above statement. I have known many atheists over a long life and a number of trips around the world, and no such name Note highlighted, your true view is reveled. calling is an inappropriate 'smoke screen' preventing any dialogue.

[Sea of red]

Sea, your friends are not you. Jaecp did not send me an outreach PM, you did.



Why would I become upset? MM is a big boy and he can handle himself just fine. What happens with you two is between you two, not me. I don't care if you like MM or anybody I do or not, that is between you two.



That is your assumption that is false James, I am not upset or angry at all. You should hear the stuff I say to the guys I work with and the jokes I throw around at my husband. Some of that stuff would get me in trouble on T web, but it doesn't bug me because I do not take it personally.



Or I have a sense of humor.



Not upset or angry in the least. You really need to drop the idea that people that throw out some insults do it because they are angry. I do not, shoot, I insult my husband and friends in good nature fun. Perhaps you should try lightening up and not taking offense to everything you see. I sure don't.



It's too bad that he is wrong and very wrong but is unable to admit it. Perhaps the problem is you two are too stuck up and trying to find offense in anything and everything?



And let me tell you something...

You need to grow a sense of humor and stop taking everything so personally because it is going to make your life miserable. I tell blonde jokes and I'm a natural blonde and I tell them because they are funny and I can get a kick out of them. I can hang out with the guys and not get upset because I am able to take whatever they dish out and I am also able to give them back too. I have a list of dumb things I've done running around in my head and freely share these dumb stories with my friends or when we're sitting around talking about dumb things we've done. I am able to laugh at myself as well as others because guess what... I keep my humor about me. Just tonight I was out and I was working with somebody that seemed to be quite a klutz and bashed his head or back against about every cowling he could. On the last one he managed not to do it crawling out and I told him that it was going to feel left out because he didn't bash something against it. He thought that was pretty funny, but I could picture you getting mad. You do know that there is a difference between being mean and not, right? Seriously, get yourself a sense of humor and stop taking everything to seriously. I'm not upset or angry, why are you?

I wasn't going to give you that satisfaction of getting more out of me but I guess I might as well fill in some blanks for the others.

My friends are a part of who I am. I'm loyal, but if they are in the wrong I'll tell them. Above and beyond that, I respect my friends far more than someone I've had some of the nastiest arguments with. Attack my friends and you attack me. You've been the same way in the past so you have no room to talk.

You know my past with drug partly and I think I'll leave it at that. Last year while I was getting off the drugs I had several medical, emotional, and career changes, changes that got me thinking.. An influential friend of mine encouraged me to mend fences and try to keep peace. This is why I messaged you with my apology for some of the things I said to you in the past. It's no secret that you and I don't get along and that we've had some heated exchanges. I don't regret attacking you or it becoming personal, you asked for it. I do regret crossing the line the times I did and taking the cheap shots I did -- no excuse for that. I wanted to see civility in the community, an wanted to try be more peaceful, and do you know what I figured out just a couple of days ago? I don't care. My time away from the forums made me forget just how deserving some of the people here are the image they get, including you.

I gave you a chance Crystal, you've shown me nothing has changed with you. It has nothing to do with insults. That you think that insults is what myself and other skeptics have against you shows you just never will get it. From now on thing are back to zero. The way you conduct yourself determines where we go from here. Be civil and I will, be rude and...

That's all.

[lilpixieofterror]

I wasn't going to give you that satisfaction of getting more out of me but I guess I might as well fill in some blanks for the others.

Then I would suggest that you try to enjoy yourself in life and have a bit of fun. Would do you a lot of good.

My friends are a part of who I am. I'm loyal, but if they are in the wrong I'll tell them. Above and beyond that, I respect my friends far more than someone I've had some of the nastiest arguments with. Attack my friends and you attack me. You've been the same way in the past so you have no room to talk.

I jump into threads mostly for the interest or when I feel a person is being overly nasty. I do not believe I was being that mean, but if you want to believe that I was....

You know my past with drug partly and I think I'll leave it at that. Last year while I was getting off the drugs I had several medical, emotional, and career changes, changes that got me thinking.. An influential friend of mine encouraged me to mend fences and try to keep peace. This is why I messaged you with my apology for some of the things I said to you in the past. It's no secret that you and I don't get along and that we've had some heated exchanges. I don't regret attacking you or it becoming personal, you asked for it. I do regret crossing the line the times I did and taking the cheap shots I did -- no excuse for that. I wanted to see civility in the community, an wanted to try be more peaceful, and do you know what I figured out just a couple of days ago? I don't care. My time away from the forums made me forget just how deserving some of the people here are the image they get, including you.

I gave you a chance Crystal, you've shown me nothing has changed with you. It has nothing to do with insults. That you think that insults is what myself and other skeptics have against you shows you just never will get it. From now on thing are back to zero. The way you conduct yourself determines where we go from here. Be civil and I will, be rude and...

So basically, you assume the worst about people and seek some sort of excuse to determine that a person is being rude because well... you want to believe that. Again James, I do not insult people because I want to be mean or nasty, you might, but I don't. So you really might want to drop the assumptions and again, get yourself a sense of humor. Might do you a lot of good instead of seeing insults everywhere.

That's all.

Very well, now your homework assignment is to laugh at yourself at least once a day. Give it a try, might enjoy it.