Questions about Arminianism

[siliconwafer]

I have some questions about Arminianism that I have been wondering about. Does Arminianism teach that salvation is accomplished by God alone and that the sinner contributes nothing to his justification? Does Arminianism teach that our faith and repentance are not the basis upon which we are justified?

[Littlejoe]

I have some questions about Arminianism that I have been wondering about. Does Arminianism teach that salvation is accomplished by God alone and that the sinner contributes nothing to his justification?

Classical Arminianism believes in grace through faith alone because it's clearly spelled out in the bible...however...it's a still a contract. Old Testament and New Testament are basically old fashioned names for Old Contract and New Contract. The old had you do certain things to be justified under the Law... i.e. circumcision, sacrifices, bathing rituals, tithes, etc, the New Testament has it's own certain thing(s) to be Justified...Believe and continually trust in Christ and what He did on the cross to save you. Some opponents of Arminianism will tell you that believing as defined by Arminians is a "work" and therefore not a valid acceptance of justification, but we of course say "BULL"... because that Also is clearly taught in the bible.

Does Arminianism teach that our faith and repentance are not the basis upon which we are justified?

This seems like the same question...however, just to be clear, Arminians believe that: Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer - That justification is sola fide. So, when individuals repent and believe in Christ (saving faith), they are thenregenerated and brought into union with Christ, whereby the death and righteousness of Christ are imputed to them for their justification before God.

Does that answer your question(s)?

LJ

[siliconwafer]

Classical Arminianism believes in grace through faith alone because it's clearly spelled out in the bible...however...it's a still a contract. Old Testament and New Testament are basically old fashioned names for Old Contract and New Contract. The old had you do certain things to be justified under the Law... i.e. circumcision, sacrifices, bathing rituals, tithes, etc, the New Testament has it's own certain thing(s) to be Justified...Believe and continually trust in Christ and what He did on the cross to save you. Some opponents of Arminianism will tell you that believing as defined by Arminians is a "work" and therefore not a valid acceptance of justification, but we of course say "BULL"... because that Also is clearly taught in the bible.

This seems like the same question...however, just to be clear, Arminians believe that: Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer - That justification is sola fide. So, when individuals repent and believe in Christ (saving faith), they are thenregenerated and brought into union with Christ, whereby the death and righteousness of Christ are imputed to them for their justification before God.

Does that answer your question(s)?

LJ

Yes, that answers my questions.

Are people justified before they start to persevere in their faith?

[Littlejoe]

Yes, that answers my questions.

Are people justified before they start to persevere in their faith?

I don't see how they could... You must begin in the faith before justification can be imputed. Arminius said: "God regards no one in Christ unless they are engrafted in him by faith" so, arminians believe that God alone determines who will be saved and his determination is that all who believe Jesus through faith will be justified. Therefore justification follows faith, it is "activated" by your faith.

LJ

[George Blaisdell]

Does Arminianism teach that salvation is accomplished by God alone
and that the sinner contributes nothing to his justification?
Does Arminianism teach that our faith and repentance are not the basis upon which we are justified?

IF you understand salvation as one's PARTAKING of God's Divine Nature [2Peter 1:4],
then ONLY God can IMPART His Nature, because ONLY God HAS it TO impart intyo us...

And the simple fact is that God will have mercy on whom He WILL have mercy...
And against that He does not impart his Divine Nature on those who are unrepentant and disobedient...

So that whereas our OBEDIENCE to Christ is required that we attain the Divine Nature,
Our obedience in no way obligates God to impart it to us...

Yet God is faithful...
And the Ekonomia of Salvation is by Baptism into Christ...

Because Christ IS God...
And IN HIM we partake of the Divine Nature
Being a MEMBER of His Body, the Church...

So yes, the works of the Faith are required that we be saved...
And no, they are NOT sufficient...
For the Divine Nature is imparted by Grace from God alone
Who is the ONLY One Who HAS it to impart...

Arsenios

[siliconwafer]

I don't see how they could... You must begin in the faith before justification can be imputed. Arminius said: "God regards no one in Christ unless they are engrafted in him by faith" so, arminians believe that God alone determines who will be saved and his determination is that all who believe Jesus through faith will be justified. Therefore justification follows faith, it is "activated" by your faith.

LJ

God alone determines the means by which a sinner receives justification and justification is received by faith.

[George Blaisdell]

Are people justified before they start to persevere in their faith?

The Faith of Christ was given once for all by Him to the Apostles...
The Apostles, following Christ, also preached this Faith...
And so, in Christ, following them, do we...

We do not persevere in OUR faith, but in Christ's Faith...
Each of us attains it differently according to the Talent(s) given to each...
To be justified is to be made right, literally in the Greek to "be righteoused"...
For a Christian, this means to be made right with God...
That means free from sin, pure, and set apart from what is unholy and impure...
This happens in Baptism, wherein we are engrafted into Christ the True Vine...
And with the Seal of the Holy Spirit become a member of His Body, the Church...
For therein Christ justifies us in and by His Holy Body Whose Head He is...
And then we are to run the race set before us overcoming all evil in great struggle...
For we are at baptism but newborn babes not yet tried in Fire...
Persevering to the end, that we shall be saved...
Thus attaining maturity [perfection] in Christ...

So we are made righteous in Baptism into Christ, even into Christ's Death...
And maturity comes with our overcoming the trials of temptations...
We cannot make ourselves righteous -
Only God can do that,
And He does so in the great Mystery of Baptism...
And Baptism follows repentance...
For this is the Gospel of Jesus Christ:
"Repent and be Baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

Arsenios

[Littlejoe]

IF you understand salvation as one's PARTAKING of God's Divine Nature [2Peter 1:4],
then ONLY God can IMPART His Nature, because ONLY God HAS it TO impart intyo us...

And the simple fact is that God will have mercy on whom He WILL have mercy...
And against that He does not impart his Divine Nature on those who are unrepentant and disobedient...

So that whereas our OBEDIENCE to Christ is required that we attain the Divine Nature,
Our obedience in no way obligates God to impart it to us...

Yet God is faithful...
And the Ekonomia of Salvation is by Baptism into Christ...

Because Christ IS God...
And IN HIM we partake of the Divine Nature
Being a MEMBER of His Body, the Church...

So yes, the works of the Faith are required that we be saved...
And no, they are NOT sufficient...
For the Divine Nature is imparted by Grace from God alone
Who is the ONLY One Who HAS it to impart...

Arsenios

Arsenios, could you expound a bit on what you mean by

"the works of the Faith are required that we be saved..."

and how does that square with Eph 2:8-10?

Eph 2:8-10 ESV

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 (U)not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

That (in my mind) contrasts saving Faith as separate from Any works...and indicates that the evidence of salvation is the doing of the works God prepared for us to do.

Thanks,
LJ

[George Blaisdell]

Arsenios, could you expound a bit on what you mean by "The works of the Faith are required that we be saved."?

Sure - The Faith of Christ requires our repentance in order that we be Baptized into Christ becoming one with Him...

Repentance, you see, is a work...

Quote] and how does that square with Eph 2:8-10?

Eph 2:8-10 ESV

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing;
it is the gift of God,
9 (U)not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

That (in my mind) contrasts saving Faith as separate from Any works...
and indicates that the evidence of salvation is the doing of the works God prepared for us to do.
[/QUOTE]

I love this quote - And especially the end of 8, which in Greek reads: "...of God the Gift."

The question is, which Gift?

And the answer is Salvation by Grace through Faith... That is why he immediately adds, because the Faith is SUCH a great work, that this Salvation is NOT from YOU (plural), but is a Gift of God, and is not even a result of works, but "of God the Gift..." And WHY does he SAY this??? Because the Faith IS such a great work... And he fears, as he plainly states, that some might boast in their great works of the Faith... Salvation by Grace is THROUGH these works, but it is NOT BY these works, which are from us... OUR works invite God's Gift of Salvation by Grace... It IS a Gift, for the Grace of God by which it is bestowed IS God, and in it we partake of God's Divine Nature [2 Peter]... There is NOTHING in created nature that can bestow upon creation that which is UN-created, which is God...

Make more sense yet??

Arsenios

[siliconwafer]

IF you understand salvation as one's PARTAKING of God's Divine Nature [2Peter 1:4],
then ONLY God can IMPART His Nature, because ONLY God HAS it TO impart intyo us...

And the simple fact is that God will have mercy on whom He WILL have mercy...
And against that He does not impart his Divine Nature on those who are unrepentant and disobedient...

So that whereas our OBEDIENCE to Christ is required that we attain the Divine Nature,
Our obedience in no way obligates God to impart it to us...

Yet God is faithful...
And the Ekonomia of Salvation is by Baptism into Christ...

Because Christ IS God...
And IN HIM we partake of the Divine Nature
Being a MEMBER of His Body, the Church...

So yes, the works of the Faith are required that we be saved...
And no, they are NOT sufficient...
For the Divine Nature is imparted by Grace from God alone
Who is the ONLY One Who HAS it to impart...

Arsenios

Salvation means deliverance from sin.

To be a partaker of the divine nature means to be conformed more and more to the image of Christ. Believers will become more Christ-like, but this does not mean that we become God or obtain a divine nature.

God commands us to obey Him and to do good works, but our obedience and good works do not save us. Our obedience and good works are not the means by which justification is received.

[George Blaisdell]

Salvation means deliverance from sin.

That is for sure an essential PART of Salvation...

To be a partaker of the divine nature means to be conformed more and more to the image of Christ.
Believers will become more Christ-like, but this does not mean that we become God or obtain a divine nature.

1Co_1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him?
But we have the Mind of Christ.

2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
that by these ye should become partakers of the Divine Nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Joh_10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, "I said, Ye are gods?"
Joh_10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

So that you can see what the Scripture means, for the ONLY way that men can be gods is that they partake of the Divine Nature...
And this is what Peter is writing about, and what John affirms

God commands us to obey Him and to do good works,
but our obedience and good works do not save us.
Our obedience and good works are not the means by which justification is received.

God commands us to repent and be baptized into His Death on the Cross...

Arsenios

[The Remonstrant]

I have some questions about Arminianism that I have been wondering about. Does Arminianism teach that salvation is accomplished by God alone and that the sinner contributes nothing to his justification? Does Arminianism teach that our faith and repentance are not the basis upon which we are justified?

In order to more fully address similar questions such as the ones you pose, I would recommend Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities (IVP Academic, 2006) by Roger E. Olson. As the title suggests, this volume clears up a lot of the basic misconceptions of classical Arminianism. The author, Roger E. Olson, actually is an Arminian and represents the system of theology accurately. While I wouldn't necessarily agree with every assertion he makes in the work, as a basic Arminian primer, you can't go wrong. Or you could just read caricature after caricature, misrepresentation after misrepresentation from popular Calvinistic authors who don't care to understand Arminianism on its own terms.

[RBerman]

I have some questions about Arminianism that I have been wondering about. Does Arminianism teach that salvation is accomplished by God alone and that the sinner contributes nothing to his justification?

No. Armianism teaches that the sinner contributes faith, as an act of his will. Arminians believe that God's prevenient grace is necessary but sufficient for man to exercise faith; there remains some thing for man to contribute.

Does Arminianism teach that our faith and repentance are not the basis upon which we are justified?

The question is confusing with the negative in it. Arminianism teaches that faith, including repentance of sin, is the instrumental cause of our justification, because by faith we are united to Christ. This is not a point of dissimilarity from Calvinism.

[Phat8594]

No. Armianism teaches that the sinner contributes faith, as an act of his will. Arminians believe that God's prevenient grace is necessary but sufficient for man to exercise faith; there remains some thing for man to contribute

Doesn't Calvinism teach the same thing?? The only difference is that in Calvinism God changes mans nature so that man necessarily will excercise faith; and that those whom God does not extend grace to, necessarily will not.

Whether you are Calvinist or Arminian man still is the one excercising faith....is he not?

Arminianism teaches that faith, including repentance of sin, is the instrumental cause of our justification, because by faith we are united to Christ. This is not a point of dissimilarity from Calvinism.

I don't know if I would necessarily say its the instrumental cause, as much as I might say its the instrumental means, or even condition...God is the cause of our justification; faith is the instrument through which He decides to work.

But...as always...I am up to being corrected....

[RBerman]

Doesn't Calvinism teach the same thing?? The only difference is that in Calvinism God changes mans nature so that man necessarily will excercise faith; and that those whom God does not extend grace to, necessarily will not.

Whether you are Calvinist or Arminian man still is the one excercising faith....is he not?

Calvinism teaches that God's grace is both necessary and sufficient, because man's exercise of faith necessarily happens as a result of God's action.

I don't know if I would necessarily say its the instrumental cause, as much as I might say its the instrumental means, or even condition...God is the cause of our justification; faith is the instrument through which He decides to work.

But...as always...I am up to being corrected....

I'm not familiar with the distinction you're drawing between an "instrumental cause" and an "instrumental means." You are correct that although God is the primary cause of everything, he often works through various secondary means.