Cardinal Pell heretic (?)

[maudman]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing with the view that "It's wrong for God to tell us to do things that he himself does not do." Some things are wrong for us precisely because we are not God; e.g. We must not put our own glory first because to do so would rob God of the glory He is due. For the same reason, God does put his own glory first.

Hey RBerman,

I don't disagree with the spirit of your post.. But we may disagree on some finer points... Original sin was the Man seeking to be like God.. I think that is the heart of your post... But what his actual sin was?(it's all real interesting) and It's something that happens every day all day and by nature wasn't sin then or now as a rule.. It was only sin for Adam... So you can't broad stroke or generalize sin in some cases....

Here are some verses that I like.. And I'll give my reasons why..

1 John 2

1My children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not do wrong things. But if anyone does something wrong, we have a Friend to help us. He speaks to God for us. He is Jesus Christ who does what is right.

2He himself is the sacrifice God offered to pay for the wrong we have done. And he pays for the wrong things all people in all the world have done.

3We can be sure that we know him when we obey his laws.

4If any man says, `I know him' and does not obey his laws, he is telling a lie. He does not know what is true.

5But if any man obeys his word, he really loves God. Here is the way that we may be sure that we belong to him.

6If any man says he belongs to him, he must live in the same way Christ lived.

Not everyone belongs to CHrist and few live the way he did.. Celebate and chased and only doing the works of his Father.. Messiah, Prophets, CHrist.. But like these verses its more about who we can trust not who is going to burn in hell.. The apostles were having to explain things to certain people.. They are writing letters to certain others.. No one else or other congregations in the church community ever saw the writings or even knew of there existance because they were addressing certain issues that arose in particular areas of the church.. Certain people in the Church simply had the information that gave them the courage to speak certain things.. When issues arose then? The letters pop up centureis later, after all the apostles finally die out and those they were personally aquainted with..

For centuries even millinium there was no cannonized scripture.. Heck even paper was a valued commodity.. Little later Coping texts was something Monks did usually.. Letters were the properties of the Bishop of the synod he lorded over... Like Christ told Peter and the apostles""" whoever sin you retain it will be retain unto him, and whoevers sin you lose it shall be loosened from him.. So the Leadership of the church had the right to bind on earth as it is in HEAVEN..

But notice it is """"Christ speaking for US""" in verse 1... It not us speaking on our own behalf.. We can't justify ourselfs only CHrist can.. No amount of studing the bible will change the fact that it is Christ who speaks on our behalf.. He will glorify us... Does it mean people shouldn't read a bible or a catacism? No it doesn't.. But we do so for the reproof and the correction of ourselves. When the oppertunities arise, or the situation exist then we may use that knowledge accompanied by the Holy Ghost to warn others how God judges such things.. But its not condemnation.. Christ earned the Write to be the mediator between God and man..

That's what universal means to the RCC.. The Church retains the right to bind or loosens ones sins for the Good of the Church.. IN other words true repentances can be determined by the Church as it has things in place to determine the Heart.. .. But the judgement is Gods not the Churches.. And the final judement is Gods on a personal level.

Peace and Godbless

[RBerman]

You are quite right that we don't justify ourselves. And of course the actual judgment is done by God, not men. At the same time, we are Christ's ambassadors (2 Cor 5). We have been entrusted with a message. That message is not limited to "turn or burn," but it surely includes that detail. If you were a doctor, and you failed to tell your patients about their cancer and its cure, you would be a lousy doctor. Similarly, God intends for Christians to tell people about the problem (their sin alienates them from God, making them objects of his wrath) and the solution (Jesus came, died, and rose again to bear the penalty for our sins, live the perfect life God demands of us, and allows us to experience the benefits he deserves when we are united to him by faith.). If we say, "I'm not the judge, so I'm not going to tell people what God as revealed about his coming judgment," then we're being lousy witnesses of God, and lousy friends to those who urgently need to know.

[maudman]

You are quite right that we don't justify ourselves. And of course the actual judgment is done by God, not men. At the same time, we are Christ's ambassadors (2 Cor 5). We have been entrusted with a message. That message is not limited to "turn or burn," but it surely includes that detail. If you were a doctor, and you failed to tell your patients about their cancer and its cure, you would be a lousy doctor. Similarly, God intends for Christians to tell people about the problem (their sin alienates them from God, making them objects of his wrath) and the solution (Jesus came, died, and rose again to bear the penalty for our sins, live the perfect life God demands of us, and allows us to experience the benefits he deserves when we are united to him by faith.). If we say, "I'm not the judge, so I'm not going to tell people what God as revealed about his coming judgment," then we're being lousy witnesses of God, and lousy friends to those who urgently need to know.

Yep Rberman that's pretty much how it is...

LIke family we warn our brothers and sisters about what pisses Dad off.. And the older brothers and sisters warn the youngers ones.. But we also transpose that relationship to the world as flesh and blood brothers and sisters in mankind.. That is how RCC thinks universally and why abortion is wrong as many other types of things.. It's not wrong becasue we say it is.. Its wrong because we are all born through the majestic skill of the master potter. God created the way of things and he created us with the potiential for suffering.. It's the price of being made in Gods image and his likeness..

Peace and god bless