Satan, like Prometheus, is Unbound

[Darfius]

This thread will attempt the unpleasant task of proving that Satan is not bound in any sense of the word, despite what preterists would have us believe. I will first deal with the arguments presented by Dee Dee Warren (dizzle) in episode 48 of her "Preterist Podcast" (which are largely a rehashing of Dr. Greg Bahsen's arguments) before presenting a few arguments of my own. Please forgive the haphazard nature of my responses to Dee Dee, but I am working from the notes I took while listening to her podcast, which I refused to do more than once.

Dee Dee first begins by claiming that Satan's dominion is "not a physical one" and that it was his "spiritual dominion" that Christ was "plundering", referencing:

Mark 3:27

In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

While it is clear that Satan is the "strong man" in these parables (also the "owner of the house" in Matthew and Luke), why does Dee Dee view his dominion as purely a spiritual one and not a physical one? Was Satan offering Christ "spiritual dominion" here?

Luke 4:5-7

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Are we to believe that Satan was offering Christ "spiritual dominion" over the world? Wouldn't that be the same thing as surrendering altogether? No, Satan was offering Christ physical kingship, but at the price of his own continued and--had Christ accepted--solidified spiritual dominion.

Dee Dee goes on to argue that since Satan keeps humanity "bound" by their fear of death (Heb 2:14), the "unbinding" of Christians from that fear results in Satan's "binding." Now I am not sure what to call this particular display of illogic, but obviously her conclusion does not follow. How does his bondage follow from our freedom? At best it but gives us the chance to gird ourselves before meeting him on the battlefield.

She continues by claiming that the following verse (called the "proclamation of the gospel") is proof that Satan is bound:

Matthew 18:18

“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Do I even need to point out how this cannot be used as proof that Satan is bound? If another Christian and I agree, could we "bind" a suspected serial killer or a dictator or the Empire State building? This verse is not granting omnipotence to Christian study groups, but is a commentary on the importance of unity and the resulting strength for positive change that will accompany Christ's body, as is clarified here:

Matthew 18:19-20

“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”

and here:

Matthew 16:19

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Next she uses the following verses as proof that Satan is bound:

Luke 10:17-20

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Clearly Satan "falling from heaven" was a future event from when Christ said this, unless Dee Dee believes that seeing a few people healed and a few demons excorsized was enough to "toss him down" from heaven, so in what sense is he bound here? And clearly Christians are harmed nowadays, so the "nothing will harm you" bit lends one to believe that this was a temporary authority given to the disciples for the express purpose of safely spreading the gospel at that time and was not an indication that Satan had been "dealt with."

Next she assumes Revelation 12:11 refers to the time of Christ:

Rev 12:11

They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.

But let's look at the context:

Rev 12:7-14

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Dee Dee fails to explain when this cataclysmic war in heaven took place. Her explanation for the "short time" Satan had after his casting down to earth was (if I recall correctly) the time between the crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, despite the fact that John specifically says it is for "a time, times and half a time" (3 and a half years). If I recall correctly, she says that it was during this time that Satan was trying to "destroy the early Christian church." Her logic is typically convoluted and involves Judaism being "mother" to the early Christian church (attempting to make the Jews "Mystery Babylon") and the "daughter" Christianity "cutting the cord"--so to speak--after the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So I guess we are to suppose that Satan thought the destruction of Jerusalem would destroy the Christian church and his throes of defeat could be heard from miles around as he was soon afterwards "bound." One has to wonder who was being divinely protected (the woman) in her scenario.

Next, Dee Dee explains that "the biblical view of binding does not automatically mean utter immobalization, but rather restriction on scope or authority or the scope of authority."

As proof of this "biblical view", she refers to:

Jude 1:6

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

2 Pet 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

For clarity's sake, Dee Dee does not believe this refers to the angels that mated with human women, but refers to all demons.

Genesis 6:1-2,4

When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

So she does not believe the Genesis account refers to fallen angels mating with human women. Correspondingly, she must consider Jude's allusion to sexual sin after his mention of the fallen angels completely arbitrary:

Jude 1:7

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

One also wonders where she thinks the 9+ foot tall giant Goliath came from and why Scripture specifically mentions that he descended from "the Nephilim."

By the way, both Jude and Peter mention that the fallen angels "bound in chains" are being held for the Day of judgment:

Rev 9:13-15

The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns of the golden altar that is before God. It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

Nevertheless, Dee Dee claims that all demons have been bound, presumably since the beginning of human history, and that therefore their continued activity (demon possession, etc.) despite being bound is proof that being bound is not really all that inconvenient a thing, Biblically speaking. (Sounds like Satan got put up in some minimum security prison with cable and a mini fridge).

She goes on to explain that the specific application of Satan's binding means that he can "no longer deceive the nations as he did before Christ's advent. The power of the proclaimed gospel can shatter Satan's ability to deceive. Because Christ now rules the nations, Satan is no longer able to deceive the nations."

Sounds nice and all, but it's nonsense. The twentieth century saw the worst wars mankind had ever seen, which had to have involved some pretty keen deceiving of some nations. If that happened while Satan was bound, God help us when he's given a free(er) hand.

And for the record, fallen angels did mate with human women and it was they (maybe even just the chief instigators) that were bound, not "all demons." That "Biblical binding just means a limit to the scope of authority" is something that remains to be seen, and seems quite dubious.

Dee Dee claims some leeway for her "Satan is bound even though the world sucks" argument by pointing out that futurists believe sin and death will still exist during the millenium, proving that futurists thus believe Satan will have some scope of activity while bound. First, sin and death will be massively reduced during the millenium of the futurists, unlike the arguable increase in sin and death since the 1st century, with lifespans returning to the pre-Flood limits and peace extending even into creation, with lions literally laying with lambs. Second, sin and death are not literal lightning bolts hurled personally by Satan, but they "prosper under his hand." When his hands are bound, they cease to prosper, but they will not be destroyed until he is.

Finally, Dee Dee attempts to argue that even the demons recognized the end of Satan's reign by what they expressed to Christ:

Matthew 8:29

“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Luke 4:33-34

In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, “Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”

Mark 5:6-13

When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won’t torture me!” For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you evil spirit!”

Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

But what about these verses indicates the demons thought Satan's reign had come to an end? The demon in Luke is unsure about Christ's intentions. The demon in Mark is more worried about not finding a host than anything else and asks (and is granted!) leave to enter the pigs nearby. Most damning of all to Dee Dee's claim is the question asked by the demon in Matthew, "Have you come...before the appointed time?"

The demons know that a time has been appointed for their judgment and this demon is accusing Christ of coming too early! That's a far cry from the "acknowledgment that Satan's reign has ended" that Dee Dee accuses the demons of.


Now as to proof that Satan has not yet been bound...Let's look a little more closely at those "owner of the house" parables:

Matthew 24:42-44

“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Mark 3:23-27

So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

Luke 12:39-40

But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

We've already established that Satan is the "owner of the house" in these parables, but who is the thief?

1 Thes 5:1-3

Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.

Rev 3:3

Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Rev 16:15

“Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Christ is the thief! And is it not now clear that Christ associates the overthrow of Satan's kingdom with His return and not His first advent? Certainly Satan suffered a fatal blow when Christ came the first time, but it is not until Christ returns that Satan is cast into the Abyss to mark the beginning of the truly glorious Millenial reign of Christ.

Let's take a closer look at Mark:

Mark 3:23-27

So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

Here Christ associoates Satan's "end" with a time when Satan's kingdom is divided against itself (when do preterists think this happened during Christ's first advent?):

Rev 17:6, 15-18

I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God’s words are fulfilled. The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

Continuing, Satan is called "the god of this world/age":

2 Cor 4:3-4

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Preterists attempt to argue that Paul meant only that "those who reject Christ" have "chosen Satan as their idol", a weak explanation on its face, but it gets worse:

1 John 5:19

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Either the apostles (under God's inspiration) were pretty bad at saying that "bad people are doing Satan's will" or they meant that Satan's kingdom has not yet been destroyed:

Daniel 2:44

“In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

Finally, Satan's kingdom will see its most powerful manifestation "at the time of the end" and in the person (preterists hate this guy, and not because he's evil, but because his reality makes mincemeat of their whole foolish system) of the Antichrist, for whom Satan (the dragon) prepares a throne and with whom Satan's own fate is inextricably bound. He is called by various titles (like Christ, his counterpart), but his character, campaign and fate are all detailed in Scripture:

Daniel 7:7-8, 11-12, 20-27

“After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

“While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

“Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

“He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

“‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

Take note for how long this "little horn wages war against the saints" (3 1/2 years):

Rev 13:4-7

Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?”
The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Let's take a closer look at Daniel 7:26-27:

Daniel 7:26-27

“‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

This clearly states that it is only after the destruction of the Antichrist (and therefore Satan's kingdom) that the kingdom of God is ushered in on earth, which lines up nicely with:

2 Thes 2:1-12

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

I could go into much further depth about the Antichrist, but this thread is already exceedingly long, so I may save that for another thread.

God bless

[Dee Dee Warren]

This thread will attempt the unpleasant task of proving that Satan is not bound in any sense of the word, despite what preterists would have us believe. I will first deal with the arguments presented by Dee Dee Warren (dizzle) in episode 48 of her "Preterist Podcast" (which are largely a rehashing of Dr. Greg Bahsen's arguments) before presenting a few arguments of my own. Please forgive the haphazard nature of my responses to Dee Dee, but I am working from the notes I took while listening to her podcast, which I refused to do more than once.

LOL, haphazard is accurate, that is for sure. It is the height of irresponsibility to claim to respond to something when by your own admission you refuse to listen more than once. When I critiqued Dr. James White on my podcast, I listened over thirty times.... it is called caring about accuracy and understanding, something you have proven yourself incapable of.

It is nearly impossible to make heads or tails out of what you said and you completely cherry-picked to remove the flow of the argument. However, I only read your post once at this time. I will read it multiple more times, and if any sense can be made, I will possibly provide responses on my poddcast as I don't bother with you here.

I never heard Bahnsen in the subject. I am flattered I came to the same conclusions.

Since you failed to give the courtesy of a link for those who actually care to carefully pay attention it is here:

http://www.preteristpodcast.com/inde...rush-his-head/

I really wish there was a daft-ness test that was required before listening. But alas, our technology is not there yet. Perhaps the antichrist will invent it along with the head/hand implants.

[Darfius]

LOL, haphazard is accurate, that is for sure. It is the height of irresponsibility to claim to respond to something when by your own admission you refuse to listen more than once. When I critiqued Dr. James White on my podcast, I listened over thirty times.... it is called caring about accuracy and understanding, something you have proven yourself incapable of.

I meant that I could only bear one sitting. I did rewind as necessary to catch anything I missed.

It is nearly impossible to make heads or tails out of what you said and you completely cherry-picked to remove the flow of the argument. However, I only read your post once at this time. I will read it multiple more times, and if any sense can be made, I will possibly provide responses on my poddcast as I don't bother with you here.

There's probably more Scripture to read than you're used to, but I'm sure you'll digest it by the thirtieth read through. Considering your track record of responding to me in the past, however, I won't hold my breath.

I never heard Bahnsen in the subject. I am flattered I came to the same conclusions.

I'm not sure what to make of this, since you link to Bahnsen's article in the resources section of your 48th podcast and quote him verbatim here:

She goes on to explain that the specific application of Satan's binding means that he can "no longer deceive the nations as he did before Christ's advent. The power of the proclaimed gospel can shatter Satan's ability to deceive. Because Christ now rules the nations, Satan is no longer able to deceive the nations."

I really wish there was a daft-ness test that was required before listening. But alas, our technology is not there yet. Perhaps the antichrist will invent it along with the head/hand implants.

The RFID chip already exists. I think your attempt at sarcasm would have worked better if it didn't exist.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Thank you for correcting me on that Bahsen article. It was given to me after the fact and not something that was instrumental in forming my views. I completely forgot about it. I held these views long before.

I don't bother responding to you since I find you quite useless. I try to see if there is anything that is worth it and do so for the benefit of others.

I don't know how you ended up off of ignore... probably some report I had to review with staff, but back you go.

[seanD]

I've heard post-mils argue that Satan isn't necessarily bound, he's just limited in his power, which really only just obfuscates the issue even more.

[Cerebrum123]

This is perhaps the biggest issue I have with preterism. I have personally had experience with demons, and I have known many people who have had similar experiences. Also considering that Satan was referred to as "the god of this world" doesn't lend credence to the "spiritual kingdom" idea to me. I really would like some honest answers to this very nagging question. If this isn't noticed by anyone within the week, I plan on making another thread asking about this subject.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I already referenced the response I gave. Since I don't have any compulsion to convince people of my view, take it or leave it, its all the same to me.

PS: The insinuation that prior answers aren't "honest" isn't going to encourage anyone else to respond to you, and only highly insults those who have.

[Cerebrum123]

I already referenced the response I gave. Since I don't have any compulsion to convince people of my view, take it or leave it, its all the same to me.

PS: The insinuation that prior answers aren't "honest" isn't going to encourage anyone else to respond to you, and only highly insults those who have.

dizzle, I don't think you are dishonest at all, and I would not every try to insinuate that on purpose. The link you gave earlier is to a podcast, I have problems listening to them. Do you have a text document of your response(or someone who does have text that has an adequately similar response)? I have medical problems that make it very hard for me to listen to something like a podcast, so I am asking honestly for a response, but one that I can actually access. Perhaps I should have said that in my above post, but I had thought that I had told you about my problem with being able to listen to something like that, but my memory isn't that great either, and I could be mistaken.

[Dee Dee Warren]

My memory is awful too, so I apologize if I took offense when none was intended. There are several posters here, the one who started this thread in particular, who have no problems insinuating and outright stating the most awful things about people who disagree, so I was probably trigger happy. Please accept my apologies. I try to put such people on ignore so I don't take it out on others. I am getting crabby in my old age.

Yes you did tell me and I forgot.

No, I don't have anything in writing yet.... for me creating audio is easier. There is a link to a good Bahnsen article in the show notes though.

[Cerebrum123]

My memory is awful too, so I apologize if I took offense when none was intended. There are several posters here, the one who started this thread in particular, who have no problems insinuating and outright stating the most awful things about people who disagree, so I was probably trigger happy. Please accept my apologies. I try to put such people on ignore so I don't take it out on others. I am getting crabby in my old age.

Yes you did tell me and I forgot.

No, I don't have anything in writing yet.... for me creating audio is easier. There is a link to a good Bahnsen article in the show notes though.

I understand. I will look for that link, and see what it has to say. If I have more questions, I might try starting another thread, that way, it's not associated with Darfius, and it will be purely questions rather than debate. Does that sound good?

[Cerebrum123]

My memory is awful too, so I apologize if I took offense when none was intended. There are several posters here, the one who started this thread in particular, who have no problems insinuating and outright stating the most awful things about people who disagree, so I was probably trigger happy. Please accept my apologies. I try to put such people on ignore so I don't take it out on others. I am getting crabby in my old age.

Yes you did tell me and I forgot.

No, I don't have anything in writing yet.... for me creating audio is easier. There is a link to a good Bahnsen article in the show notes though.

I understand. I will look for that link, and see what it has to say. If I have more questions, I might try starting another thread, that way, it's not associated with Darfius, and it will be purely questions rather than debate. Does that sound good?

[Dee Dee Warren]

Yes, I don't tend to participate where he does.

[eschaton]

I thought Prometheus was bound for eternity and an Eagle ate out his liver every day.

[RBerman]

I thought Prometheus was bound for eternity and an Eagle ate out his liver every day.

IIRC, one of the labors of Heracles was that he freed Prometheus eventually.

[eschaton]

I stand corrected. Thanks. BTW, I haven't seen the movie.