Questions about David's Sin of Taking a Census

[siliconwafer]

2 Samuel 24:1 says that the Lord's anger incited David to give orders to Joab to take a census of Israel and what David did was a sin. 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan moved David to number Israel. How is the Lord's anger inciting David to do something different from Satan moving David to do something? Can anyone explain how God is not responsible for David's sin if the Lord's anger incited David to do something? Why is David still responsible for his sin if Satan moved him to do it?
Don't worry. I don't believe that God and Satan are responsible for David's sin. I believe that David alone is responsible for his sin. A non-Christian might read those verses and think of those questions and I was just wondering how you would answer those questions.

By the way, I'm using the NASB.

[seanD]

The most sound explanation to me is that David numbered the people in order to judge how formidable his military was, which shifted his faith and reliance on his military instead of relying on God for his next victory. Satan was involved because Satan tempted him to do it. But it wasn't just that David was unfaithful, it was that numbering represented direct ownership, which was a direct affront to God and his ownership. The moral is that if we stand in the faith (put on the whole armor) then we can resist the temptation of Satan.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

2 Samuel 24:1 says that the Lord's anger incited David to give orders to Joab to take a census of Israel and what David did was a sin. 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan moved David to number Israel. How is the Lord's anger inciting David to do something different from Satan moving David to do something?.

The Lord's anger is the withdrawal of His Grace, which gives Satan his power of influence over a person...

The Lord's anger is the result of OUR actions which turn away from Him...

The results in the world are predictable...

The results of His Grace are not...

Arsenios

[siliconwafer]

The most sound explanation to me is that David numbered the people in order to judge how formidable his military was, which shifted his faith and reliance on his military instead of relying on God for his next victory. Satan was involved because Satan tempted him to do it. But it wasn't just that David was unfaithful, it was that numbering represented direct ownership, which was a direct affront to God and his ownership. The moral is that if we stand in the faith (put on the whole armor) then we can resist the temptation of Satan.

Satan tempted him to do it. David was not forced to sin by Satan and David should have trusted in God for his next victory.

[siliconwafer]

The Lord's anger is the withdrawal of His Grace, which gives Satan his power of influence over a person...

The Lord's anger is the result of OUR actions which turn away from Him...

The results in the world are predictable...

The results of His Grace are not...

Arsenios

I understand what you are saying. The Lord's anger is the result of David's actions, not the cause of his actions.

[seanD]

Satan tempted him to do it. David was not forced to sin by Satan and David should have trusted in God for his next victory.

Satan tempted him. But he could have resisted if he kept the faith.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

I understand what you are saying. The Lord's anger is the result of David's actions, not the cause of his actions.

The Lord's action [anger//withdrawal of Grace] is taken for the Salvation of David... One cannot really call the actions of God RESULTS... God acts FOR our salvation, even when the actions we take turn FROM Him... Because when all goes south and Grace is utterly departed, even then, it is there, but hidden from us utterly, that we turn back to Him... David's actions are caused by David, and the Lord's by the Lord... Glory to God!

And yet it is not absolute on man's part, for an action by David that is sinful then engenders limiting consequences on his future actions, to some degree and at least for a time, to be determined by God, until He restores His Grace on David... Hence the need for the penance part of repentance, in order that God restore us... Indeed, it is the bestowal of Grace, and its departure, and its regaining, that accurately depicts the path of Salvation of the Saints... The pearl of great price, once found, is worth more than all one's possessions, and we sell them ALL in order that we have it - Or - As with the 5 foolish virgins, they had to go PURCHASE oil for their Lamps, which is the attaining of the Holy Spirit's Grace, and this purchase is made by selling all tht you have and giving to the poor, thereby having riches in the Heavens...

So while the truth is simple, it is deep...

God bless you...

Arsenios

[maudman]

2 Samuel 24:1 says that the Lord's anger incited David to give orders to Joab to take a census of Israel and what David did was a sin. 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan moved David to number Israel. How is the Lord's anger inciting David to do something different from Satan moving David to do something? Can anyone explain how God is not responsible for David's sin if the Lord's anger incited David to do something? Why is David still responsible for his sin if Satan moved him to do it?
Don't worry. I don't believe that God and Satan are responsible for David's sin. I believe that David alone is responsible for his sin. A non-Christian might read those verses and think of those questions and I was just wondering how you would answer those questions.

By the way, I'm using the NASB.

Hello siliconwafer,

Well what's even more interesting is what is different for Davids sin when we compare this event to the one where he has uriah the hiittite bascially murdered so that he winds up marring his wife.. Why is one considered satanic and the other not? The answers sometimes are stranger than the questions..

[FarEastBird]

2 Samuel 24:1 says that the Lord's anger incited David to give orders to Joab to take a census of Israel and what David did was a sin. 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan moved David to number Israel. How is the Lord's anger inciting David to do something different from Satan moving David to do something? Can anyone explain how God is not responsible for David's sin if the Lord's anger incited David to do something? Why is David still responsible for his sin if Satan moved him to do it?
Don't worry. I don't believe that God and Satan are responsible for David's sin. I believe that David alone is responsible for his sin. A non-Christian might read those verses and think of those questions and I was just wondering how you would answer those questions.

By the way, I'm using the NASB.

One will surely wonder ……………

But if we take note, also:

Was Israel responsible of Christ rejection, or was it God’s work itself? (Matthew 21:42)
Isn’t it suspicious that Christ’s crucifixion coincide the Passover?

Was Joseph’s brethren really responsible of their actions, or were their actions were fore ordained to save Israel of the incoming famine?

Was Saul’s ascension to the throne, a mistake, or just a response to Israel’s folly/sinfulness?

Was the birth of Jacob and Esau, and of Jacob’s deception of his father, a work of God?(not of him that runneth or willeth?)

I believe, with the striking similarities of the stories above, one can make simple conclusions out of them.

Peace,
FEB