Evidence for a young Earth

[marke]

So according to you God deliberately filled the world with lying physical evidence as a test? Those who accept the physical evidence that God created over the contradictory human written words in the Bible fail and must burn in hell?

Wow, I've heard some confused theology from "born again" types before but that one....I don't even know how to respond.

- T

You don't have it completely right but you are getting there. For your sake I can only say I hope you repent and turn to God or that I am wrong about what I think is going to happen to you if you don't. .

[Tiggy]

I would think the biggest problem for them would be admitting they have been wrong about their ideas that dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago. If they were wrong about that then the dating scheme of the whole geologic column is called into question. What I have never been able to understand is why they insist the geological record mandates that age for dinosaurs when remains are being found practically on top of the ground in many places and the fact that millions of dinosaur tracks worldwide are found right on top of the ground today. How then can they use the geological column to date these remains?

Fossils created hundreds of million years ago are covered over by up to thousands of feet of sediment in the geologic column

Plate tectonics moves huge chunks of land and breaks up the geologic column, often taking deeply buried layers and moving them back close to the surface.

The surface soil then erodes away, exposing the fossil.

- T

ETA: How do you suppose the dinosaurs walked up this vertical cliff?

4901034023_3b85ba2b87.jpg

[Tiggy]

You don't have it completely right but you are getting there. For your sake I can only say I hope you repent and turn to God or that I am wrong about what I think is going to happen to you if you don't. .

Paging Mr. Pascal! Paging Mr. Pascal! Your wager is ready!

- T

[marke]

Fossils created hundreds of million years ago are covered over by up to thousands of feet of sediment in the geologic column

Plate tectonics moves huge chunks of land and breaks up the geologic column, often taking deeply buried layers and moving them back close to the surface.

The surface soil then erodes away, exposing the fossil.
- T
ETA: How do you suppose the dinosaurs walked up this vertical cliff?
4901034023_3b85ba2b87.jpg

What did you say about dinosaur tracks above ground by the untold thousands? Is there some way to date these tracks to see how old they are and also to do some investigation of fossils buried below these tracks to see what geologists say about their age for comparison?

[Jorge]

So, you're agreeing with marke that God will "weed out"
Christian evolutionists from Heaven, Jorge?

—Sam

**************************************************

FIRST : "Christian Evolutionist" is, I strongly believe, an oxymoron.

SECOND : In response to your question, the call is not mine to make.

Nonetheless, I am able to say the following :

Some Christians may be evolutionists due to genuine ignorance (as
opposed to chosen ignorance). Other Christians may have been
duped by an authoritative figure and were not able to escape from
the lies that they were fed before they died and faced God.

I believe that such 'Christian evolutionists' (and others) will be forgiven.

Then there are 'Christians' that know the truth yet wish to promote
their own truths, their own version of God', and to do so they must
knowingly distort God's Word. I don't think that such 'Christian'
evolutionists will fall in the same category as the first (above)
and I believe that God will "weed out" those people. Never forget,
not everyone that claims to be a Christian is in fact one. Only God
may answer that. However, "by their fruits you shall know them".
A person that willingly distorts the Word of God is yielding highly
poisonous fruit and leading others to a spiritual death. There
must be accountability for that.

That is just an opinion and I will not be overly dogmatic about it,
but it is what I genuinely believe. The call is God's and God's alone.
Yet, while an opinion, it is supported by Scripture.

Jorge

[Jorge]

You don't have it completely right but you are getting there.
For your sake I can only say I hope you repent and turn to God
or that I am wrong about what I think is going to happen to
you if you don't.

****************************************************************

Remember my warning to you about Tiggy???

You are in the midst of a crash course on being 'Tiggied' to death.

Sorry ... not a laughing matter.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Perhaps it's time for you to take a break until your compassion tank refills.
You'll be much more effective that way.

*****************************************************

But then I wouldn't have all the fun that I have with these people.
.
.
.
Seriously, I have all of the compassion in the world (sometimes I have too
much compassion for unmerited cases). In general, these people don't
need compassion, they need a swift kick in the butt. They are arrogant
know-it-all-blowhards that think they can distort God's Word as they
please in order to make their Evo-Myth believable. The worst part is that
they don't just harm themselves - they take many innocent people along
for the ride ... people that are duped by the Evo-Lies that they promote.
In short, sometimes it is necessary to overturn a few tables.

Jorge

[RBerman]

But then I wouldn't have all the fun that I have with these people.

Seriously, I have all of the compassion in the world (sometimes I have too much compassion for unmerited cases). In general, these people don't need compassion, they need a swift kick in the butt. They are arrogant know-it-all-blowhards that think they can distort God's Word as they please in order to make their Evo-Myth believable. The worst part is that they don't just harm themselves - they take many innocent people along for the ride ... people that are duped by the Evo-Lies that they promote. In short, sometimes it is necessary to overturn a few tables.

Jorge

Maybe. I think you had it more right with your initial explanation: You find it fun to mock them. That's the impression I get from reading your posts, anyway.

[Jorge]

Maybe. I think you had it more right with your initial explanation: You find it
fun to mock them. That's the impression I get from reading your posts, anyway.

*************************************

I've never denied it ... in fact, I've said it many times.
It is great entertainment and it's free!

Materialists / Atheists / Theistic Evolutionists say
things that a Hollywood producer could not dream up.

Come on, be honest - these people are hilarious, aren't they?

On reflection, it's not funny at all because
people's eternal destiny rides on it.

Lastly, I was genuinely serious with what I wrote ("Seriously")
in my previous post so don't be too quick to dismiss it.

Jorge

[Ansgar Seraph]

**************************************************

FIRST : "Christian Evolutionist" is, I strongly believe, an oxymoron.

Yeah, we know. Which is what makes your particular heresy so damaging.

SECOND : In response to your question, the call is not mine to make.

Then in what way was marke's post:

Because He intends to fill heaven with those who choose to believe Him in spite of the lying evidence to the contrary. God intends to weed out the proud, the disobedient, the willfully unbelieving, etc, and the issue of evolution is an excellent tool whereby he can see who will believe His Word or not.

excellent? Those who are "duped," by marke's logic, are in the same boat as the rest of us false Christians.

Nonetheless, I am able to say the following :

Some Christians may be evolutionists due to genuine ignorance (as
opposed to chosen ignorance). Other Christians may have been
duped by an authoritative figure and were not able to escape from
the lies that they were fed before they died and faced God.

I believe that such 'Christian evolutionists' (and others) will be forgiven.

Then there are 'Christians' that know the truth yet wish to promote
their own truths, their own version of God', and to do so they must
knowingly distort God's Word. I don't think that such 'Christian'
evolutionists will fall in the same category as the first (above)
and I believe that God will "weed out" those people. Never forget,
not everyone that claims to be a Christian is in fact one. Only God
may answer that. However, "by their fruits you shall know them".
A person that willingly distorts the Word of God is yielding highly
poisonous fruit and leading others to a spiritual death. There
must be accountability for that.

That is just an opinion and I will not be overly dogmatic about it,
but it is what I genuinely believe. The call is God's and God's alone.
Yet, while an opinion, it is supported by Scripture.

Jorge

Damned nonsense*. By what "fruits" are Christians known for, Jorge? John the Baptist, clearing the way for Christ, told the crowd to "bear fruits in keeping with repentance." Asked what they should do, John replied that they should share their belongs with the needy, treat others fairly and justly and not to rely on their genealogical ties to Abraham. Christ would warn about the "ravenous wolves" who would be "known by their fruit," their wickedness. Never did Christ tie wickedness to a different interpretation of the Creation account. Christ testifies, in Matthew 12, that a house divided against itself cannot stand. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. And what is the "fruit of the Spirit?" It is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Gal. 5:22-23)

And yet, you would fabricate a new category of fruit: creationism. Many of those who "knowingly distort God's Word"** by claiming compatibility between Christianity and evolution demonstrate the "fruits of the Spirit" but you, Jorge, flippantly cast those fruits away in favor of "Biblical Creationism." You want to talk about "poisonous fruit?" Here it is: teaching people that they can either be Christian or they can believe in evolution. Never in Christ's ministry was this dichotomy created and the focus of Christ's commandments to "bear good fruit" are miles away — "Love your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind," and "Love one another as I have loved you." Christ's call was to dedicated service to others and closeness to God but you have arbitrarily narrowed what it means to be "close to God" by requiring, against natural and Scriptural evidence to the contrary, that a particular interpretation of Scripture must be adhered to. Those who knowingly conflate Christianity and evolution (many on this forum and many more elsewhere) are willing distorters of "God's Word"** and will be weeded out from Heaven.

You add to Scripture with this requirement, Jorge, and you bring like judgment on yourself. If your measure of salvation includes filtering out those who "knowingly distort God's Word"** by integrating a knowledge of God's creative history, what will you do at the Throne if God says that evolutionary theory is true? How then would you be judged?

—Sam



*From Lewis' "Mere Christianity:"

Mere Christianity. Lewis. Book II. Chap. 1

One listener complained of the word damned as frivolous swearing. But I mean exactly what I say—nonsense that is damned is under God's curse, and will (apart from God's grace) lead those who believe it to eternal death.

© source where applicable

**This really has to stop. Christ is the Word of God, not Scripture. The Bible contains the words of God and is inspired literature but it is not "God's Word." Christ is not a book and He does not change throughout time, unlike the Bible's many versions and translations. The conflation of Christ and the Bible as "God's Word" is a sloppiness that allows for a dangerous idolatry.

[Tiggy]

What did you say about dinosaur tracks above ground by the untold thousands? Is there some way to date these tracks to see how old they are and also to do some investigation of fossils buried below these tracks to see what geologists say about their age for comparison?

These particular tracks are located in Humaca, Bolivia, about 25km from Sucre. They were made by a herd of sauropod dinosaurs and date to the upper Cretaceous period, approx. 68-70 MYA.

Here is a detailed writeup on the tracks

Titanosaurid trackways from the Upper Cretaceous of Bolivia: evidence for large manus, wide-gauge locomotion and gregarious behaviour

Geologically speaking they are in the strata of the El Molino Formation of the Upper Puca Supergroup. The tracks were originally laid on the shores of a shallow sea. They were later buried under ocean sediments, morphed into sandstone, after which shifting of the South American plate turned the entire plateau nearly vertical.

You really think God deliberately planted them so that all who see them will go to hell?

- T

[marke]

These particular tracks are located in Humaca, Bolivia, about 25km from Sucre. They were made by a herd of sauropod dinosaurs and date to the upper Cretaceous period, approx. 68-70 MYA.

Here is a detailed writeup on the tracks

Titanosaurid trackways from the Upper Cretaceous of Bolivia: evidence for large manus, wide-gauge locomotion and gregarious behaviour

Geologically speaking they are in the strata of the El Molino Formation of the Upper Puca Supergroup. The tracks were originally laid on the shores of a shallow sea. They were later buried under ocean sediments, morphed into sandstone, after which shifting of the South American plate turned the entire plateau nearly vertical.

You really think God deliberately planted them so that all who see them will go to hell?

- T

What tracks are you talking about? There are dinosaur tracks in plain sight all over the world, and the ones I was talking about are less than an hour's drive from the Grand Canyon.

[Tiggy]

What tracks are you talking about? There are dinosaur tracks in plain sight all over the world, and the ones I was talking about are less than an hour's drive from the Grand Canyon.

Uh..the ones I posted the picture of, and the ones you asked about.

Are you following this conversation at all?

- T

[wattsr1]

Do I even know you?

Yes. As "rjw" on CARM.

And we've been all through the actual history of the neutrino, it's discovery, the solar neutrino problem and neutrino oscillations on several occasions, haven't we.

All you are doing is presenting the same nonsense here, that you did there.

[wattsr1]

*****************************************************

Making sure : are you saying that giraffe evolution is your strongest evidence?
IOW, if I'm able to cast enough doubt on giraffid evolution, you will cast away
your Evo-Faith and begin on the Biblical Creationist path. Is that right?

'Cause I ain't wasting my time trashing your "strongest" example only to
watch you move the goal posts yet again. I want it in writing, Sam.

Jorge

That makes no sense Jorge.

At no stage did Sam ever suggest, imply, insinuate, or claim that giraffe evolution was his "strongest evidence".

All he was doing was offering it as an example of something he presented to you as evidence (not his "strongest evidence") for evolution and he cannot see where you ever responed to it.

"Strongest evidence" is simply something you made up. And I note your refusal to address his point.

Like I said, when it comes to arguing against anyone's claims or arguing for your own ideas, you still have to reach the starting post.